Dian Wei's Death

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Dian Wei's Death

Unread postby Marc » Fri Jan 09, 2004 9:25 pm

I know that Dian Wei died during the attack on Wan castle by Zhang Xiu (is that his name? :) ), but how exactly did he die? I'd heard that Hu Chu Er stole his weapon to ensure victory, but that doesn't explain what killed him.
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Unread postby Elven Fury » Fri Jan 09, 2004 9:31 pm

as far as i know, he was stabbed in the back by a soldier with a spear and while blood was gushing out of him he still fought until he finally lost too much blood or was wounded again... but thats all i know
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Unread postby Man Chong » Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:58 pm

Hu Che Er made Dian Wei drunk with wine, and stole his weapon.

Zhang Xiu's troops come rushing forward, but Dian Wei keeps them at bay with a infantry sword. When the swored breaks, he picks up two soldiers and flatten the enemy soldiers. Then finally, someone from the back stabbed him with a spear and he died.
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Unread postby Lady Wu » Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:33 am

Various poetic renditions of Dian Wei's last stand are found here: http://the-scholars.com/viewtopic.php?t=5704 :)

Basically, Zhang Xiu got Cao Cao's approval to move his men into the Cao camps, then one night he got Dian Wei drunk and had his weapon stolen. Zhang's men then rebelled, but Dian Wei held the gate and gave Cao Cao some time to escape. The enemy charged with spears and stuff, and even had archers around, but like Man Chong said, he managed to hold them at bay for a while until he got stabbed in the back and died. For a long while after he died, the enemy still didn't dare to come near his body.
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Unread postby Separation Anxiety » Sat Jan 10, 2004 10:01 pm

This is my understanding of the event. Zhang Xiu had just been taken into Caos camp. He then found out Cao was having and affair with one of his relatives, so he wanted to kill Cao Cao. But he was very afraid of Dian Weis strength and skill with his two iron spears. So before he organized the assault on Cao he had one of his generals Hu Juer get Dian Wei drunk and steal his spears, which he was successful in. Dian Wei stumbled back to his quarters and passed out. Later that night Dian heard yelling outside and proceeded to arming himself but found that his weapons and armor were somehow missing. So he grabbed an infantrymans sword and rushed to the gate to protect the gate, but the troops were already within the gate. So at this point they attack Dian Wei and he kills many many enemy soldiers without sustaining any wounds. But then his sword breaks and he is weaponless. So he starts picking up enemies and using them as makeshift weapons, but he now has no way to protect himself at all and he gets stabbed several times with spears, but he continues fighting. This scares the enemy so much they start to fall back and shoot him with arrows and bolts. Finally they manage to bring down Dian Wei, but they are so terrified of him the dont go near or pass his dead lifeless corpse.

Also on another note Cao grieves more heavily over the loss of Dian Wei than he does his own son, and openly cries for him.
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Unread postby robbyjo » Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:32 am

Time to revive the thread...

Continuing the debate from this thread

Forever Changes wrote:
robbyjo wrote:Dian Wei fought to death was an accident -- he was drunk and slain forthwith. So, it's not a defense.


I think it's rather unfair to say Dian Wei was "slain forthwith", and that his act can't be considered a defence. On the contrary, Dian Wei's heroic stand against Zhang Xiu ensured Cao Cao's successful retreat. Historically speaking, Dian Wei held off Zhang Xiu's troops with but ten men under his command. While I agree that the truly great military accomplishments are rarely achieved without the help of others, Dian Wei's final stand against Zhang Xiu can't really be included, nor ruled out as an individual accomplishment.


robbyjo wrote:Well... Dian Wei is supposed to guard the Cao Cao's tent (not front gate). Cao Cao called Dian Wei but he was drunk. Cao Cao fled already but he just woke up when the gong rang. Yes, he fought for a while, but it's his fault. He didn't defend his lord. It's not an achievement. It's more like a shameful accident.


DynastyIain wrote:It is shameful he got drunk on duty, but he redeemed himself by defending the gate bravely with no armour and little help, if he hadnt done that then Cao Cao would have been caught and killed.


robbyjo wrote:Cao Cao had already fled before Dian Wei woke up... :lol: Much credit of Cao Cao's escape actually belonged to Cao Ang, his own son that offer him his own horse -- after Cao Cao's Dawan's horse was died of an arrow.... And to some lesser extent, Cao Amin, his nephew. Not much of Dian Wei since the pursuers already catching up even without Dian Wei guarding the front gate...


Forever Changes wrote:There is no mention of Dian Wei being drunk, or only waking to the sounding of the battle gong, in his SGZ biography. His courage at fighting against far superior odds cannot be labelled as a simple "accident", nor can any doubt that he was successful in defending Cao Cao. Had Cao Cao felt that Dian Wei failed him in his duty, he wouldn't have wept at the news of his death.


Would it be because that the record a great hero shouldn't contain blemishes like being drunk? It could be. Cao Cao himself wept upon him because he was so proud of him prior to this incident. He even compared him to E Lai...

Also, if he were sober and he were on duty of guarding Cao Cao, why didn't he don his armor in the first place? Being drunk is one possibility....

Edit: Not only that, his rank was a colonel. It was hard to believe that he had to fight only with 10 men... Was it due to Cao Cao's fault to assign him on 10 guards -- especially only in a just-taken city...

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Unread postby robbyjo » Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:49 am

DynastyIain wrote:
ROTK Chapter 16 wrote:Cao Cao, relying on Dian Wei to hold the main gate, had fled in haste by the rear gate.
The brave stand of Dian Wei probably kept Zhang Xiu's men just a little busy. Historically of course there is no evidence to suggest alcohol was a factor, simply that he bravely defended his lord to the death. :wink:


Though if he weren't there, Zhang Xiu army has already catch up since all gates were open anyway... I don't think that this heroic action is necessary... If he were doing the right job, most likely he would follow Cao Cao and stick to his back to ensure full safety...

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Unread postby Shield of Rohan » Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:54 am

I don't like how people forget about Cao Ang's sacrifice for his father in particular. Without his help, Dian Wei's effort would have been valiant, but in vain. Dian served and died for his lord honorably, and I respect him for that, but Cao Ang sacrificed his life for his father too, in one of the greatest displays of filial piety in the era.
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Unread postby Iain » Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:59 am

robbyjo wrote:Also, if he were sober and he were on duty of guarding Cao Cao, why didn't he don his armor in the first place? Being drunk is one possibility....
Being taken by suprise and acting quickly without thought for his own life could be another reason. also history does not mention he was unarmoured just the novel.
robbyjo wrote:Though if he weren't there, Zhang Xiu army has already catch up since all gates were open anyway... I don't think that this heroic action is necessary... If he were doing the right job, most likely he would follow Cao Cao and stick to his back to ensure full safety...
Sometimes quite often brave people do things by instinct not by what is always the right course of action, like running into a burning home to save someone at no thought to their own safety. Dian Wei's actions were quite acceptible considering he had no time to locate Cao Cao (or know where he was) and the main gate was the immediate strikepoint the danger was at.
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Unread postby Exar Kun » Mon Aug 16, 2004 1:01 am

robbyjo wrote:Cao Cao had already fled before Dian Wei woke up... Much credit of Cao Cao's escape actually belonged to Cao Ang, his own son that offer him his own horse -- after Cao Cao's Dawan's horse was died of an arrow.... And to some lesser extent, Cao Amin, his nephew. Not much of Dian Wei since the pursuers already catching up even without Dian Wei guarding the front gate...


An excellent point.

Certainly there were more ways into the camp than the front gate.So really all Dian Wei would have done is hold up the advance there.
However that doesn't demean the brave manner of his death,or the fact that he wouldn't have known where Cao Cao was at the time.As far as he might know Cao Cao could be just a little way from him,in which case his defense of the front gate would be invaluable.
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