The "What If" Thread

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The "What If" Thread

Unread postby PangDeGuy » Fri Jan 02, 2004 1:46 pm

This is the what if thread. I'm not sure if this would be allowed or not, but I think we can use this thread as a discussion thread to talk about the "what if's" of the Three Kingdoms, for example: "What if Liu Bei survived at Yiling?" And if we want to make this more organized, we can have one person who's knowledgable of the Three Kingdoms and post up a new "what if" topic about every week (would that be fair?). It's up to the mods to decide if this thread is worth it or not.
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Unread postby Zhuge Kongmingx » Sat Jan 03, 2004 1:33 am

Ok, try "what if Sun Ce and Zhou Yu lived longer?:

"What if Liu Shan was lost at Changban?"
"What if Sima Yi and Deng Ai died of ilness at a young age?"
"What if Zhou Tai did not save Sun Quan at Xuan?"
"What if Yuan Shu surrendered to Lu Bu and Lu Bu opposed Cao Cao with all of Yuan Shu's troops?"
"What if Dian Wei lived at Wan?"
"What if Cao Ang lived at Wan?"
"What if Guan Yu lived at Fan, and Lu Meng never took Jingzhou?"
"What if when Zhong Hui rebelled with Jiang Wei, they were not killed and attacked Wei/Jin with Wu?"
"What if Ma Su won at Jieting?"
"What if all 5 tigers lived longer?"
"What if Kongming did not perish at Wuzhang?"
"What if Wu won at He Fei?"
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Re: The "What If" Thread

Unread postby Chibichan » Sat Jan 03, 2004 9:09 am

PangDeGuy wrote:This is the what if thread. I'm not sure if this would be allowed or not, but I think we can use this thread as a discussion thread to talk about the "what if's" of the Three Kingdoms, for example: "What if Liu Bei survived at Yiling?" And if we want to make this more organized, we can have one person who's knowledgable of the Three Kingdoms and post up a new "what if" topic about every week (would that be fair?). It's up to the mods to decide if this thread is worth it or not.


Technically, Liu Bei did survive Yi Ling, but died a year later. Now, the correct thing to say would bw what if he won, and if he won, then Lu Xun would be in a BAD position when Liu Bei got his hands on him...
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Unread postby Banishing Blade » Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:07 pm

"what if Sun Ce and Zhou Yu lived longer?:


Difficult to say. . . I guess Wu's territory would've increased a tad more, mainly because Ce seemed more ambitious than Quan, and Ce was great at boosting morale, considering he fought in battles (IIRC).

Zhou Yu? *shrug* I don't know if it'd make that much of a difference.

"What if Liu Shan was lost at Changban?"


I'd sleep easier at night :lol:

Actually, I believe Shu may have had a greater chance. Had someone more capable become a Shu Emperor, such as Kongming, maybe Shu would've had a better chance. Then again, the goal of Shu was to restore the Han (not sure if this remained the goal later on), and I think the Han Empire was supposed to have a Liu as their ruler.

"What if Sima Yi and Deng Ai died of ilness at a young age?"


Well, for one, Wei would (most likely) not have become Jin. Also, Deng Ai was one of, if not the, most talented general of the era. Had he died, it would've been a great loss for Wei, and they may not have won as many campaigns against Jiang Wei as they originally had.

"What if Zhou Tai did not save Sun Quan at Xuan?"


Then they'd better hope Ce survived his assassination :D

"What if Yuan Shu surrendered to Lu Bu and Lu Bu opposed Cao Cao with all of Yuan Shu's troops?"


Lu Bu was a good fighter, but that's all. He'd fatigue his troops, and, accompanied by his indecisiveness, I doubt he'd get anywhere.

"What if Dian Wei lived at Wan?"


Not much of a difference, saved that Mengde would have two people to guard him, perhaps making it even more difficult for him to die (in battle).

"What if Cao Ang lived at Wan?"


Well, hopefully Mengde would be able to see that Pi was a better choice then Ang (as predecessor). Otherwise, Wei would not have accomplished as much as it had. Albeit, IIRC, it didn't gain much under Pi, either.

"What if Guan Yu lived at Fan, and Lu Meng never took Jingzhou?"


Then the tragedy of Yiling would not have happened, and perhaps Shu would've held their position for much longer, and perhaps even gained more territory in the north. Shu had the capable officers, but they lacked the able ruler (Shan).

"What if when Zhong Hui rebelled with Jiang Wei, they were not killed and attacked Wei/Jin with Wu?"


No real difference. The soldiers most likely wouldn't have supported them, and for Wu to turn to two rebel generals wouldn't be the wisest choice.

"What if Ma Su won at Jieting?"


I am near positive he would've screwed up another major battle. He was his own downfall.

"What if all 5 tigers lived longer?"


Shu would have better generals (with exceptions) to lead more campaigns. Zhang Fei and Huang Zhong were battle-hardened veterans; they could've captured northern Wei territories while facing off against the newer Wei officials.

"What if Kongming did not perish at Wuzhang?"


Shu would not have ended up so corrupt later on, and the government would've been more stable and, perhaps, more prosperous.

"What if Wu won at He Fei?"


Well, due to my lack of knowledge of city location's, I'm not entirely sure if it would've made a difference.[/quote]
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Unread postby PangDeGuy » Sun Jan 04, 2004 3:13 pm

Zhuge Kongmingx wrote:Ok, try "what if Sun Ce and Zhou Yu lived longer?:

"What if Liu Shan was lost at Changban?"
"What if Sima Yi and Deng Ai died of ilness at a young age?"
"What if Zhou Tai did not save Sun Quan at Xuan?"
"What if Yuan Shu surrendered to Lu Bu and Lu Bu opposed Cao Cao with all of Yuan Shu's troops?"
"What if Dian Wei lived at Wan?"
"What if Cao Ang lived at Wan?"
"What if Guan Yu lived at Fan, and Lu Meng never took Jingzhou?"
"What if when Zhong Hui rebelled with Jiang Wei, they were not killed and attacked Wei/Jin with Wu?"
"What if Ma Su won at Jieting?"
"What if all 5 tigers lived longer?"
"What if Kongming did not perish at Wuzhang?"
"What if Wu won at He Fei?"


I'll answer some of them, and maybe the others when I have more time.

For the second one:
Well, then Wei would've had no chance in the latter age, and Shu and Wu probably would've captured some important city like Changan. Then, either Shu and Wu would face off or they'd have mutual peace. If Shu faced off with Wu, it'd be a like a draw. They both have excellent positions, excellent generals, excellent strategists, etc.

For the third one:
Then Wu's kingdom would've crumbled.

For the fourth one:
Wouldn't make much of a difference. Yuan Shu wasn't worth a bone or something like that ;)

For the seventh one:
Then Yiling would've never happened, and then there wouldn't be strifes between Wu and Shu, and better yet Liu Shan might've not ascended the throne. Liu Feng wouldn't have been executed. The five tiger generals would still be together also. Big difference here.

I'll answer more later...
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Unread postby Kong Wen » Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:28 am

Here are some what-if scenarios that were posted in another thread.

Wu Chun wrote:Here are some What if's to ponder about

He Jin succeded in assinating the eunichs after supressing the yellow turbans

Lu Bu did not kill his master Ding Yuan

Gongsun Zan defeated Yuan Shao and hired his advisors

Liu Bei Lost his son Liu Chan (either with his wife to Sun Quan) Or if Zhao Yun did not find him

Also What if Sima Yi was Executed by Cao Shang
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Unread postby Wu Chun » Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:19 pm

The what if thread of life...

what if yuan shao executed liu bei
and how about Sun Jain NOT finding the seal
The rise and fall of an empire can be won by many soldiers, or just one woman

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Unread postby Guan Zhi Sun of Guan Yu » Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:49 pm

What if Guan Yu captured Cao Cao :D

What if Liu Bei never went against Liu Zhang but Zhang Lu.

Lu Bu would have been more smart and listened to his advisors.

If Sun Ce wouldnt have died.
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Unread postby Wu Chun » Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:06 pm

Guan Zhi Sun of Guan Yu wrote:What if Guan Yu captured Cao Cao :D

What if Liu Bei never went against Liu Zhang but Zhang Lu.

Lu Bu would have been more smart and listened to his advisors.

If Sun Ce wouldnt have died.


Liu zhang would eventually become apart of lu bei's army, he would be annexed or somthing in time

lu bu was destened to lose even listening to his advisors, to many people were against him and knew that he does not have the charisma to lead

sun ce may have tried to expand to far and weaken wu thus leading to their destruction by wei

(shu would still uphold the alliance most likely)
The rise and fall of an empire can be won by many soldiers, or just one woman

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Unread postby Mr. Zhuge » Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:38 pm

Here are more "What if" scenarios.

What if Ma Chao succeded at Tong Gate and countinued towards the capital and captured the capital and Cao Cao?

What if Zhuge Liang joined Sun Quan together with his brother instead of joining Liu Bei?

What if Liu Bei won at Yi Ling?

What if Cao Cao died after or during the alliance against Dong Zhuo?

What if Zhang Fei didn't stop the million-man army at the Chang Ban brigde?
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