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Re: The "What If" Thread

Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:13 pm
by DragonAtma
That.... would be extremely unlikely.

Remember, confuciuanism (and therefore china) ran off of rigid lines of relationships: ruler to people, father to son, husband to wife, elder brother to younger brother, and friend to friend. So they would consider replacing a leader with someone without rank unthinkable.

Re: The "What If" Thread

Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:54 pm
by PeanutButterToast
DragonAtma wrote:That.... would be extremely unlikely.

Remember, confuciuanism (and therefore china) ran off of rigid lines of relationships: ruler to people, father to son, husband to wife, elder brother to younger brother, and friend to friend. So they would consider replacing a leader with someone without rank unthinkable.


Ah. I admit I know next to nothing about Confucianism. So even if Emperor Xian was still the main monarch, it still wouldn't work, eh? Oh well. It was a shot.

Re: The "What If" Thread

Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:44 am
by Dong Zhou
Not sure the three of them have the personalities or shared interest to do so and not sure, bar possibly Cao Cao, who benefits. Liu Bei has a small base behind him and given attitudes towards the south till Wu came along, Wu's people would risk being screwed in a deal.

Also think gentry would rebel, would be such a radical idea that China isn't set up for.

Re: The "What If" Thread

Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:55 pm
by DragonAtma
Actually, a year or two ago I thought about different outcomes for Cao Mao vs Sima Zhao, and one possibility was a desperate Cao Mao and his rump state begging for assistance... from Liu Shan and Sun Xiu.

Obviously, that didn't happen.

EDIT: I should add that the closest ancient China could get to a republic would be something like modern Liechtenstein or Monaco; both of them are technically constitutional monarchies, but in both cases the prince has a lot more power than (say) Elizabeth II.

Re: The "What If" Thread

Unread postPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:17 pm
by To Establish Peace
How would Liu Bang/Xiang Yu/Zhang Liang/Han Xin/Xiao He would do in the 3k era? I personally think that the level of competition in the 3k era would prevent Bang form unifying China again but i think they'd get pretty far. For the sake of argument, they're not the historical personages but random generals/bureaucrats with the same personality/talent/etc.

Re: The "What If" Thread

Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:25 am
by Sun Fin
I don't believe I've ever seen this asked before...

If Sun Jian had defected to Dong Zhuo when approached what might have happened?

Re: The "What If" Thread

Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:57 am
by Dong Zhou
Alliance fails, Dong doesn't need to move out of the capital. This might have given Wang Yu and co a stronger base to restore the Han from, not sure if Dong had the energy to push on against the rebels he defeated but with a stronger powerbase he might well do so.

Re: The "What If" Thread

Unread postPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:24 am
by PeanutButterToast
Ok, so Liu Bei dies, Zhuge Liang swears he will serve Liu Shan loyally, and Liu Feng is already dead right? So what if Liu Shan died in an accident or something after his ascension? He was 16 at the time, wasn't he?

Re: The "What If" Thread

Unread postPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:33 am
by waywardauthor
PeanutButterToast wrote:Ok, so Liu Bei dies, Zhuge Liang swears he will serve Liu Shan loyally, and Liu Feng is already dead right? So what if Liu Shan died in an accident or something after his ascension? He was 16 at the time, wasn't he?

Liu Shan has two younger brothers, so Yong or Li takes over if Shan hasn't had a son yet. It is unlikely that anyone would usurp the children of Liu Bei.

Re: The "What If" Thread

Unread postPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:40 am
by DragonAtma
Then his younger brother Liu Yong takes over. Liu Yong is hit by a bizarrely timed meteor? Then their younger brother Liu Li takes over. Liu Li trips and falls off a cliff? Then I assume Liu Lin, son of Liu Feng takes over.

Really, while the novel only shows two people, by 220 there were more.