The "What If" Thread

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Re: The "What If" Thread

Unread postby DragonAtma » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:13 pm

That.... would be extremely unlikely.

Remember, confuciuanism (and therefore china) ran off of rigid lines of relationships: ruler to people, father to son, husband to wife, elder brother to younger brother, and friend to friend. So they would consider replacing a leader with someone without rank unthinkable.
Unless I specifically say otherwise, assume I am talking about historical Three Kingdoms, and not the novel.

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Re: The "What If" Thread

Unread postby PeanutButterToast » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:54 pm

DragonAtma wrote:That.... would be extremely unlikely.

Remember, confuciuanism (and therefore china) ran off of rigid lines of relationships: ruler to people, father to son, husband to wife, elder brother to younger brother, and friend to friend. So they would consider replacing a leader with someone without rank unthinkable.


Ah. I admit I know next to nothing about Confucianism. So even if Emperor Xian was still the main monarch, it still wouldn't work, eh? Oh well. It was a shot.
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Re: The "What If" Thread

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:44 am

Not sure the three of them have the personalities or shared interest to do so and not sure, bar possibly Cao Cao, who benefits. Liu Bei has a small base behind him and given attitudes towards the south till Wu came along, Wu's people would risk being screwed in a deal.

Also think gentry would rebel, would be such a radical idea that China isn't set up for.
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Re: The "What If" Thread

Unread postby DragonAtma » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:55 pm

Actually, a year or two ago I thought about different outcomes for Cao Mao vs Sima Zhao, and one possibility was a desperate Cao Mao and his rump state begging for assistance... from Liu Shan and Sun Xiu.

Obviously, that didn't happen.

EDIT: I should add that the closest ancient China could get to a republic would be something like modern Liechtenstein or Monaco; both of them are technically constitutional monarchies, but in both cases the prince has a lot more power than (say) Elizabeth II.
Unless I specifically say otherwise, assume I am talking about historical Three Kingdoms, and not the novel.

In memory of my beloved cats, Anastasia (9/30/06-9/18/17, illness) and Josephine (1/19/06-9/23/17, cancer).
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Re: The "What If" Thread

Unread postby To Establish Peace » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:17 pm

How would Liu Bang/Xiang Yu/Zhang Liang/Han Xin/Xiao He would do in the 3k era? I personally think that the level of competition in the 3k era would prevent Bang form unifying China again but i think they'd get pretty far. For the sake of argument, they're not the historical personages but random generals/bureaucrats with the same personality/talent/etc.
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Re: The "What If" Thread

Unread postby Sun Fin » Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:25 am

I don't believe I've ever seen this asked before...

If Sun Jian had defected to Dong Zhuo when approached what might have happened?
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Re: The "What If" Thread

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:57 am

Alliance fails, Dong doesn't need to move out of the capital. This might have given Wang Yu and co a stronger base to restore the Han from, not sure if Dong had the energy to push on against the rebels he defeated but with a stronger powerbase he might well do so.
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Re: The "What If" Thread

Unread postby PeanutButterToast » Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:24 am

Ok, so Liu Bei dies, Zhuge Liang swears he will serve Liu Shan loyally, and Liu Feng is already dead right? So what if Liu Shan died in an accident or something after his ascension? He was 16 at the time, wasn't he?
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Re: The "What If" Thread

Unread postby waywardauthor » Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:33 am

PeanutButterToast wrote:Ok, so Liu Bei dies, Zhuge Liang swears he will serve Liu Shan loyally, and Liu Feng is already dead right? So what if Liu Shan died in an accident or something after his ascension? He was 16 at the time, wasn't he?

Liu Shan has two younger brothers, so Yong or Li takes over if Shan hasn't had a son yet. It is unlikely that anyone would usurp the children of Liu Bei.
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Re: The "What If" Thread

Unread postby DragonAtma » Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:40 am

Then his younger brother Liu Yong takes over. Liu Yong is hit by a bizarrely timed meteor? Then their younger brother Liu Li takes over. Liu Li trips and falls off a cliff? Then I assume Liu Lin, son of Liu Feng takes over.

Really, while the novel only shows two people, by 220 there were more.
Unless I specifically say otherwise, assume I am talking about historical Three Kingdoms, and not the novel.

In memory of my beloved cats, Anastasia (9/30/06-9/18/17, illness) and Josephine (1/19/06-9/23/17, cancer).
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