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Xiahou Ba!

Unread postPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 7:32 pm
by Sima Hui
Xiahou Ba! Xiahou Ba! Xiahou Ba! I'm a fan of him. He defected from Wei to Shu and became mates with Jiang Wei. I'd like to know your opinions on him. Was he a traitor or a saviour! Personally I think he was right to defect. His mission was to destroy that evil Sima Yi :evil: [/quote]

Unread postPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 7:36 pm
by Marc
Um.......if you don't like Sima Yi then why does your name begin with Sima?
Plus, just because Sima Yi was ambitious doesn't mean he was evil....

Unread postPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 7:40 pm
by Sima Hui
I don't exactly HATE him. I just think that his killing of Cao Shuang was cruel. Besides Sima Hui taught everything Zhuge Liang, Pang Tong etc knew! A really respectable man!

Unread postPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 7:44 pm
by Kong Wen
Zhuge Marc wrote:Um.......if you don't like Sima Yi then why does your name begin with Sima?
Plus, just because Sima Yi was ambitious doesn't mean he was evil....

Sima Hui is a different guy altogether. He's the Taoist sage Still Water, who taught Kongming, Pang Tong, and Xu Shu.

I don't think our Sima Hui takes issues so much with Sima Yi's ambition so much as with his "betrayal" of Wei.

To keep us on topic, I think Xiahou Ba was a good guy. You could see him as a traitor or as an honourable guy depending on which side you support. Obviously, he had no love for the Jin boys, so leaving for Shu doesn't really count as betrayal. I think he was following what he thought was right, and didn't want to support a cause in which he didn't believe.

Some could call him a draft-dodger. ;)

Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:59 am
by Peter
hmm, interesting, just add little more information here...
I thought the mean reason for Xiahou Ba to flee for Shu is because Sima Yi started "house cleaning" of non-emperial Cao relatives and Xiahou relatives...

so you can argue weather he wanted to just escape from Sima Yi or he already had in mind to fight against him...

okay, back to the topic, yup, I do respect the guy...lol

Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 1:02 am
by Shadowlink
Zhuge Marc wrote:Um.......if you don't like Sima Yi then why does your name begin with Sima?
Plus, just because Sima Yi was ambitious doesn't mean he was evil....
Sijma Hui is not related to sima yi. like kong zhengshu said u really should read the threee kingdom book

Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 1:45 am
by Separation Anxiety
I think he is a traitor. He left the kingdom his family loyally served. Imagine if Xiahou Yuan and Xiahou Dun knew that he would end up going to Shu. It would not be nearly as bad if he went to Wu, then i could at least retain a shred of good opinion of him. Him and Jiang Wei both made horrible choices. If i was in Wei and i wanted to leave or was forced to leave I would go to Wu, that way i could keep my pride and dignity, and I would not have to deal with the incompetent Liu Chan.

Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 1:58 am
by Kong Wen
Dian_Wei wrote:I think he is a traitor. He left the kingdom his family loyally served.

Not really. The kingdom his family loyally served completely changed its style of administration. If someone worked for the German Empire before Hitler took charge, I wouldn't expect him to become a Nazi.

Dian_Wei wrote:It would not be nearly as bad if he went to Wu, then i could at least retain a shred of good opinion of him.

This doesn't really make sense given your earlier judgement. If he left for Wu, he would still be leaving his kingdom and joining an "enemy".

The whole point of the episode with Xiahou Ba leaving Wei was to show how messed up the Wei administration was becoming under the Simas.

Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 2:04 am
by EERman
i like xiahou ba, and i don't think he was a traitor. the caos had lost thier power, and that is who he wanted to serve under. i don't think it is a crime to join a new kingdom if thier is a change in ruler. also what do you mean by it would be better if he went to Wu?

Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 7:30 am
by Iain
Dian_Wei wrote:I think he is a traitor. He left the kingdom his family loyally served.
And that same Kingdom imprisoned and killed his family, I know what I'd do in his situation, and it wouldnt be meekly returning to Sima Yi for a quick execution!!