Morg wrote:Yes, Cao Cao controlled the emperor but at least he had some semblance of a claim to legitimacy which is more than can be said for the other two.
Lady Zhuge wrote:I don't understand how Cao Cao could legitimately control and oppress the emperor.
Liu Bei was a descendent of the royal line, yet he only declared himself emperor after Cao Pi overthrew Xian.
I have nothing to say in defense of Sun Quan, though.
Morg wrote:Perhaps I didn't explain clearly. SGYY illustrates how Cao Cao abuses his newfound power and how the emperor wishes to get rid of him (the edict hidden in the girdle). However, from Cao Cao's point of view, he continued to be a good servant of the Han, reuniting the land under the emperor.
Therefore, while Cao Ca was opressing the emperor he still had a claim of legitimacy.
Indeed but I personally feel that Liu Bei's own ambition was by far more important to him than restoring the Han. I was a very big fan of Liu Bei's until I read SGYY which managed to convince me that the man was purely out for himself as he betrayed 'friend' after 'friend'. While Luo Guanzhong firmly establishes Liu Bei as the almighty messiah of the novel, parts of the book portray Xuande in a less than favourable light which in turn can easily lead the reader to question his motives. Therefore, I am not personally inclined to believe that Liu Bei wanted anything other than to establish his own kingdom.
Just my opinion.
I do: He had lovely eyes
Lady Zhuge wrote:I think the key words in what you've stated above is from Cao Cao's point of view. From Hitler's point of view, he was purifying the human race and doing a good thing.
Does that mean his reason was legitimate, though? Being a good servant of the Han means being a true and loyal subordinate to the emperor, not oppressing him.
I guess Liu Bei's true legitimacy is a matter of perspective and opinion. While I respect your opinion, I do not agree with it.
If he was truly just out for himself, I doubt he would have waited so long or even needed his advisors' persuasion to ascend the throne.
Also, I do not agree that Liu Bei was less legit than Cao Cao, considering the latter was certainly not out for the good of the Han or its emperor. You could say that he was a pretty ambitious guy himself.
I do: He had lovely eyes
Ugh, but do they really match his supposedly purple beard?
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