If Cao Cao captured Liu Chan before Zhao Yun...

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Unread postby AkA23 » Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:42 am

It coulda been a good thing I mean at the time no but when he had to choose someone to rule Shu after he died and Liu Chan wasn't their maybe Shu coulda lasted longer with someone else as Emperor
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Unread postby AkA23 » Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:47 am

It coulda been a good thing I mean at the time no but when he had to choose someone to rule Shu after he died and Liu Chan wasn't their maybe Shu coulda lasted longer with someone else as Emperor
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Unread postby Zhilong » Thu Oct 23, 2003 7:25 pm

For a more dramatic effect maybe Cao Cao could have Liu Shan raised as one of his own and then set him up to attack Liu Bei. :twisted:
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Unread postby Gan Ning 27 » Thu Oct 23, 2003 7:33 pm

Zhilong wrote:For a more dramatic effect maybe Cao Cao could have Liu Shan raised as one of his own and then set him up to attack Liu Bei. :twisted:


Not like it would have mattered. Liu Shan was a fool, from start to finish. And Mengde would have used him as ransom and blackmail over Liu Bei.....he'd get far more use out of the kid through that than enlisting him as an officer.
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Unread postby Zhilong » Thu Oct 23, 2003 8:32 pm

Where's your sense of drama? :wink:
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Unread postby Rurouni Kenshin » Thu Oct 23, 2003 11:36 pm

Gan Ning 27 wrote:
Zhilong wrote:For a more dramatic effect maybe Cao Cao could have Liu Shan raised as one of his own and then set him up to attack Liu Bei. :twisted:


Not like it would have mattered. Liu Shan was a fool, from start to finish. And Mengde would have used him as ransom and blackmail over Liu Bei.....he'd get far more use out of the kid through that than enlisting him as an officer.


Can you read Cao Cao's mind? He would probably use him for blackmail, but there is no specific evidence that Liu Chan looked a GREAT deal like Liu Bei. So instead of probably capturing him, he had the option of using Liu Chan to his advantage. He might not end up as a fool through Cao Cao's training, and he may prove as strong as Zhao Yun in later days. I don't know I'm not a mind reader, but if Cao Cao used him to his advantage, it would have been perfect for Wei.
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Cao Cao captureing Liu Shan

Unread postby Iain » Fri Oct 24, 2003 1:34 am

Always assumeing that Cao Cao even knew he had the son of Liu Bei; Cao Cao would have little or no time to bring this child up in his ways, he already had many of his own children to guide and even the temptation of using him against his own father would proberly take more effort than its worth.
Besides Cao Pi would feel threatened by all this attention on a rivals child and something nasty might happen to the kid.
By the way was Liu Bei's son called Liu Shan or Liu Chan as I am seeing both spelling of his name here, which is correct?
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Re: Cao Cao captureing Liu Shan

Unread postby Rurouni Kenshin » Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:33 am

DynastyIain wrote:Always assumeing that Cao Cao even knew he had the son of Liu Bei; Cao Cao would have little or no time to bring this child up in his ways, he already had many of his own children to guide and even the temptation of using him against his own father would proberly take more effort than its worth.
Besides Cao Pi would feel threatened by all this attention on a rivals child and something nasty might happen to the kid.
By the way was Liu Bei's son called Liu Shan or Liu Chan as I am seeing both spelling of his name here, which is correct?


Good point Iain, I didn't really think of Cao Pi since he is one of the vengeful Cao son's. Well, to answer your question it is Liu Chan, but I'm sure anyone in this forum could probably prove me wrong.
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Re: Cao Cao captureing Liu Shan

Unread postby waynethegame » Fri Oct 24, 2003 3:19 pm

DynastyIain wrote:By the way was Liu Bei's son called Liu Shan or Liu Chan as I am seeing both spelling of his name here, which is correct?


If I'm not mistaken, Liu SHAN is Liu Bei's son. Liu CHAN is Liu Shan's son (Liu Bei's grandson) and is the guy who killed his children and committed suicide along with his wife when he learned that Shu had surrendered to Deng Ai.
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Unread postby Asellas » Fri Oct 24, 2003 3:27 pm

Actually, Chan can be used for Shan... if you read his bio at KMA it will state at the bottom.
It doesn't matter if there is another Liu Chan, it canbe said as Liu Shan or Liu Chan but Shan is the most commonly used translation.
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