Yuan Shu's betrayal
by Lord_Kongming on Wed Jul 09, 2003 4:50 pm
Dude the SanGuoZhi is way more historical than the novel its a compilation of bios of the officers way back then. It tells alot of stuff. Yuan Shu was just there for personal glory like all the other lords. There was no unified spirit thats why their coalition failed.
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by Jimayo on Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:48 pm
Sun Jian would not of been able to defeat Dong Zhuo's forces by himself. I'll grant Sun Jian is good, but Dong Zhuo proved himself to be a good strategist during the rebellion in Liang province, and even with Wang Rui's forces, Sun Jian was still massively outnumbered by Dong.
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by Yuan Seth on Thu Jul 10, 2003 2:07 am
Lord_Kongming wrote:Dude the SanGuoZhi is way more historical than the novel its a compilation of bios of the officers way back then. It tells alot of stuff. Yuan Shu was just there for personal glory like all the other lords. There was no unified spirit thats why their coalition failed.
San Guo Zhi...is that a seperate book that I could buy? If this is a more accurate source of information, I would invest in it.
袁 "Since the dawn of time every one will die,
Let the history books note my death with loyalty at heart." --Wen Tianxiang
Let the history books note my death with loyalty at heart." --Wen Tianxiang
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by Jimayo on Thu Jul 10, 2003 3:58 pm
Sun Yuan Seth wrote:San Guo Zhi...is that a seperate book that I could buy? If this is a more accurate source of information, I would invest in it.
It's only in chinese.
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by Yuan Seth on Thu Jul 10, 2003 4:43 pm
Notorious P.I.K. wrote:Sun Yuan Seth wrote:San Guo Zhi...is that a seperate book that I could buy? If this is a more accurate source of information, I would invest in it.
It's only in chinese.
Well...that stinks.
袁 "Since the dawn of time every one will die,
Let the history books note my death with loyalty at heart." --Wen Tianxiang
Let the history books note my death with loyalty at heart." --Wen Tianxiang
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by Antiochus on Tue Aug 19, 2003 2:29 am
I agree whit Zhang Liao 17. Sun Jian did not have the military power to take Luo Yang and stay there since it was far from is homeland. Eventually he would get beated by Yuan Shu, Li Jue or Cao Cao. Also Dong Zhuo might have escapte to Chang An and from there continue the fight.
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Hmmm...
by Lord Yuan Shao on Tue Oct 07, 2003 6:35 pm
.There is a lot of view points.This is mine´s:
If Sun Jian takes the supplies from Yuan Shu,his troops could be fighting more fiercely until the same Hua Xiong could be defeated,but,without supplies,Hua Xiong fastly passed to counterattack to see some Sun Jian´s troops fleeing away without apparent reason.Sun Jian and Yuan Shu not were friends,but with Yuan Shao on charge moderating the hipotetic union of regional leaders,Sun Jian played his bet and taked the vanguard without think in Yuan Shu´s post-plans.But not was this way.Sun Jian retreated and Hua Xiong continued advancing under Li Jue´s advise.Then Guan Yu appeared to offer him a duel.With Guan Yu giving to the Allied encampment the head of Hua Xiong and without any othe strong officers to cut the Allies´s advance...the Gate was conquered
If Sun Jian takes the supplies from Yuan Shu,his troops could be fighting more fiercely until the same Hua Xiong could be defeated,but,without supplies,Hua Xiong fastly passed to counterattack to see some Sun Jian´s troops fleeing away without apparent reason.Sun Jian and Yuan Shu not were friends,but with Yuan Shao on charge moderating the hipotetic union of regional leaders,Sun Jian played his bet and taked the vanguard without think in Yuan Shu´s post-plans.But not was this way.Sun Jian retreated and Hua Xiong continued advancing under Li Jue´s advise.Then Guan Yu appeared to offer him a duel.With Guan Yu giving to the Allied encampment the head of Hua Xiong and without any othe strong officers to cut the Allies´s advance...the Gate was conquered
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Yuan Shu
by Iain on Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:13 am
Yes but to quote Yuan Shu's learned advice "This Sun Jian is a very tiger. Should he take the capital and destroy Dong Zhou we would have a tiger in place of a wolf. Do not send him grain. Starve his men and that will decide the fate of that army." Yuan Shu agreed to this and put a stop to Sun Jian's advance.
I think Yuan Shu was over-estimating Sun Jian's ability and not giving Dong Zhou enough credit to hold out.
And perhaps Sun Jian's reluctance to give up the imperial seal were partly due to his lack of support on the battlefield.
I think Yuan Shu was over-estimating Sun Jian's ability and not giving Dong Zhou enough credit to hold out.
And perhaps Sun Jian's reluctance to give up the imperial seal were partly due to his lack of support on the battlefield.
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