Diao Chan

Join the Romance of the Three Kingdoms discussion with our resident Scholars. Topics relating to the novel and history are both welcome. Don't forget to check the Forum Rules before posting.
Kongming’s Archives: Romance of the Three Kingdoms
Three Kingdoms Officer Biographies
Three Kingdoms Officer Encyclopedia
Scholars of Shen Zhou Search Tool

Which kingdom should she of joined?

Poll ended at Sat Oct 18, 2003 5:56 am

Shu
5
42%
Wu
1
8%
Wei
2
17%
Other
4
33%
 
Total votes : 12

Re: Diao Chan

Unread postby Morg » Sun Sep 28, 2003 11:57 pm

Wild-Eyes wrote:As for Diao Chan's age, I would assume she was 16 - 21. Though I grant most women were married off early, I think that songstresses such as she was would have been married off later, since they had more training in their life, like a geisha who wouldn't be fully trained until later in their years?


I think the wording in the book is somewhat cagey to be honest and I think that she would have been younger than 16 if she was real. I think that the original text was probably 'just bursting into womanhood' as DynastyIain said, meaning 11-13 with the 'twice eight' text added in later printings to bring her up to legal age. That would explain the age difference between the Chinese version's 16 and the US printing's 21.

All of this means that I'm going to have to re-write some of the bio and bug James to change it...

Anyway, there are a few folktales and opera stories that deal with where Diao Chan ended up. MNB and Lady Wu translated 2 of them in this thread:
http://the-scholars.com/viewtopic.php?t=6772
"If you do not turn your back on me, I shall not on you." - Cao Cao to Pang De
User avatar
Morg
The Man
 
Posts: 1046
Joined: Fri May 09, 2003 11:46 am

Unread postby Separation Anxiety » Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:17 am

If she was to go to any kingdom it would have been Wu. Why would she ever go with Cao Cao or Liu Bei, the two responsible for Lu Bus death. Think about it, why would she go to the kingdoms that killed the man with whom she shared the closest relationship to?
Separation Anxiety
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 3467
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 9:40 pm
Location: The search party never came...

Diao chan...

Unread postby Iain » Mon Sep 29, 2003 1:27 am

I dont think she would of had too much say in where she went, especally if Cao Cao had her in his grasp (and he was quite the ladies man if the books are to be believed)and would Cao Cao really let someone that close to Lu Bu go free? I doubt it.
Cao Cao destroyed entire households for one persons attempts to kill him so that their siblings could not retaliate.
User avatar
Iain
Lord of Nanchang
 
Posts: 4754
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 7:55 am
Location: Lost in the fun world of Vana'diel.

Unread postby Rurouni Kenshin » Mon Sep 29, 2003 1:48 am

I didn't see much of Diao Chan in the novel. Her name(or REAL name) was only mentioned once or twice.

From some of the rumors of the story, I heard after Lu Bu was executed. The Three Sworn brothers argued over which one should take her as a wife. But after a long arguement, Guan Yu slew her so they wouldn't end up fighting. I'm not sure of this rumor, since I haven't seen her till after Lu Bu's Death.
A beautiful face can win popularity, but a beautiful hand can win respect.

~Which one do you prefer?~

"I've killed a helluva lotta people to get to this one. And now, I'm gonna Kill Bill"
User avatar
Rurouni Kenshin
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 988
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 8:04 pm
Location: Searching for the Death List Five

Sable Cicada.

Unread postby Iain » Mon Sep 29, 2003 3:23 am

There is a history of Diao Chan (Sable Cicada) on the main page as you enter Kongmings Archives, at the end of it they mention a couple of folk tales one states Guan Yu killed her. While the other says he cut her in half because the brothers fought over her.
Seems like a very Solomon type judgement there by Guan Yu too bad for the poor girl if it really happened that way.
User avatar
Iain
Lord of Nanchang
 
Posts: 4754
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 7:55 am
Location: Lost in the fun world of Vana'diel.

Unread postby Lady Wu » Mon Sep 29, 2003 4:22 am

Hmm... both my Chinese edition of SGYY and the Moss Roberts translation say Diao Chan was 16 ("twice-eight" in Chinese, as 7@1 notes, and "sixteen" in Roberts). Chinese age is usually quoted a year or two more than the "real age", so Diao Chan would only be a girl of 15 :shock: (women married young; Xiahou Ba's cousin was 13~14 -- 11~12 in Western reckoning -- when Zhang Fei took her as wife). There's no way she could be 21 (20 by Western reckoning) -- one would be considered an old maid by then!

I would suspect that Cao Cao got his hands on her first, though.
"Whatever you do, don't fall off the bridge! It'll be a pain to try to get back up again." - Private, DW 8
User avatar
Lady Wu
There's no better state than Wu
There's no better state than Wu
 
Posts: 12840
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 2:35 am
Location: Wu-ere else?

Re: Sable Cicada.

Unread postby Shadowlink » Mon Sep 29, 2003 1:34 pm

DynastyIain wrote:There is a history of Diao Chan (Sable Cicada) on the main page as you enter Kongmings Archives, at the end of it they mention a couple of folk tales one states Guan Yu killed her. While the other says he cut her in half because the brothers fought over her.
Seems like a very Solomon type judgement there by Guan Yu too bad for the poor girl if it really happened that way.
I think she will join Shu. Liu Bei,Guan Yu, Zhang Fei will ask Cao Cao to let them marry her and Cao Cao might let Guan Yu marry her just to keep the warrior.
User avatar
Shadowlink
Langzhong
 
Posts: 4882
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2002 5:57 pm

Unread postby Antiochus » Sun Oct 05, 2003 6:18 pm

I think that she would go and live her life. not serving a lord.
User avatar
Antiochus
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 2573
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 5:29 pm
Location: Sherbrooke

Unread postby The Mask » Sun Oct 19, 2003 7:27 am

I agree with Jia Xu, she must have run away when Lu Bu captured by Cao Cao or maybe she commit suicide :shock:? However, she never storied again after the fall of Lu Bu, don't you agree?
"Do not try to run away, O rebel! You have fallen into one of the Prime
Minister's traps and had better stay!"
- Jiang Wei to Sima Yi
User avatar
The Mask
Initiate
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 1:55 pm
Location: Wandering, searching for his mask.

Re: Sable Cicada.

Unread postby Wai Lung » Sun Oct 19, 2003 10:04 am

One of the stories I heard about Diao Chan was that Cao Cao kept her after he executed Lu Bu. He then sent her to Guan Yu to try to seduce him into staying with Cao Cao. However, Guan Yu killed her.
"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." Zhuge Liang
Wai Lung
Apprentice
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2003 5:18 pm
Location: UK

PreviousNext

Return to Sanguo Yanyi Symposium

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved