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Sun Jian

Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2002 2:37 am
by LittleConqueror
Two questions:
a) What do you think of Sun Jian?
b) What would have happened if Sun Jian lived longer?

Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2002 2:41 am
by Dennis
I think Sun Jian was absolutely excellent. He was a great leader and beginning of one of the most dominant kingdoms in the San Guo period. He was a man of great moral fiber and an excellent leader, there are few cooler than him.

If he had lived, Sun Ce would not have died, because I am not sure Sun Ce would have killed Yu Ji if his mother and father cared for his 'Magic.' So Sun Ce and himself as well as Sun Quan live longer, leaving more talented offensive generals to assault Hefei and get a foothold into the Wei empire.

Sun Jian rocks.

Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2002 4:58 am
by Russell
Sun Jian was a very good leader, and a man made from some of the best stuff out there.

Had Sun Jian lived, Liu Biao wouild have surely died in the attack, meaning Liu Bei would have never been able to seek shelter in Changsha, so Shu might not have been gathered under Liu Bei at all. Also, I'm sure the assualt an Wei would have been better led, (Sun Ce not dying etc.) Everything would have changed almost.

Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2002 5:33 am
by Iznoach, Legendary Dragon
Sun Jian was great, and always has been one of my favorite characters. He was an awesome fighter and leader, and would have been good for the creation of Wu.

I can see several changes that would have occurred, such as
*the death of Liu Biao, and consequent loss of Jing to Sun Jian;
*Yuan Shu never gets the Seal, therefore doesn't declare himself emperor;
*Yuan Shu army defeated by Sun Jian in revenge for not supplying him against Dong Zhuo and ratting him out to Yuan Shao;
*Wu empire formed a lot earlier, and probably reuniting China.

Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2002 5:56 am
by Zhou Gongjin
Sun Jian has the be my favorite of all the SanGuo rulers.
When Sun Jian was 17, he was serving under his father and killed the leader of a local pirate gang, by pretending that there were other soldiers with him.
After that he fought numerous Han Rebels, even before the Yellow Turbans and Dong Zhuo. The real Sun Jian was the one who killed Hua Xiong, and not Guan Yu like in SGYY.
Some interesting points:

- Sun Jian was the leader of the 5 Tigers of Jiang Dong
- Zu Mao was actualy a Han official who helped Sun Jian get appointed to fight the yellow scarves
- Sun Jian did not flee from Yuan Shao like SGYY says
- The reason for Sun Jian going against Liu Biao is because of Yuan Shu (read his SGZ bio for details)

All in all, I would say that if Sun Jian had been anble to defeat Liu Biao, he would have turned around and killed Yuan Shu, then the south would practically already be his.

Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2002 8:23 am
by Lu Xun
Sun Jian is my favorite leader. He is intelligent, brave, powerful, and charismatic. If he had lived Wu would have grown faster and most likely bigger. Jon pretty much summed everything up that I was going to say, so I second his comments. :)

Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2002 11:18 am
by Alucard
sun jian is a good ruler. his empire whould have won or gotten alot of land. when he dies sun ce will do the work of finishing off the people.

Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2002 2:02 pm
by Lance
Also, when Sun Jian does eventually die, Sun Ce will be older and may be s little calmer and less inclined to anger. This would also be great for Wu, because Sun Ce would then be more like Sun Jian. :)

Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2002 2:52 pm
by Chao Tzu Lung1
i think sun jian was the better ruler of the 3 in Wu. after he died, wu really didn;t try much at all, sun jian lived? then the south would be his in 10 years, liu zhang would have been elminated and same with yuan shu and liu biao and liu bei would not had any backing from either and would have been evenually enlisted with sun jian or elminated and there would have benonly 2 kingdoms and wei would have defiantely lost to Wu because of the leadership ability and the generals under sun jian.

he was the best ruler out of the 3 even tho i am a pro shu i feel sun jian could and would have done alot more the wu empire then any of his son s did after him.

Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2002 5:04 pm
by Han Xin
Chao Tzu Lung1 wrote:i think sun jian was the better ruler of the 3 in Wu. after he died, wu really didn;t try much at all.

Thanks you for admitting that Wu was the greatest of all the three Kingdoms...