Liu Bei is better later on

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Liu Bei is better later on

Unread postby Cao Ren » Thu Aug 01, 2002 7:47 pm

How many feel that Liu Bei is more real after guan yu dies. I mean he does al this mean stuff that i really like. He happily beheads all those evil people from Wu(han xin's going to make me regreat this)and beheads them, he just seems more like Cao Cao
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Unread postby Dennis » Thu Aug 01, 2002 10:07 pm

I think, yes, he becomes more human, but I like him less for what he did at Yiling, it was very irresponsible.
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Unread postby Pang Shiyuan » Thu Aug 01, 2002 10:14 pm

Liu Bei learned his lesson after the defeat by Lu Xun. He was basically arrogant and didn't follow his advisor's advice like he used to.

Furthermore, he felt that since he was an experienced warrior and was subsequently defeated by a young general like Lu Xun (no shame in that really), he didn't have the support of "heaven" anymore, and gradually, his mental health deteriorated (I read that from the 3 kingdoms & Wei/Jin history book which uses SGZ and SGYY as references...but I'm not which one that came from).
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Unread postby Cao Ren » Fri Aug 02, 2002 1:10 am

hmm yes he became like cao cao indeed
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Unread postby LittleConqueror » Fri Aug 02, 2002 2:03 am

Liu Bei becomes more real after Guan Yu dies. He becomes arrogent, vengeful and eventually crazy.
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Unread postby Iznoach, Legendary Dragon » Fri Aug 02, 2002 7:04 am

It's just that after the death of Guan Yu, he finally stopped repressing his feelings and started acting on them, something he didn't do the whole novel. I don't even think the many times his wives and family were taken captive he reacted that way...I also attribute his lack of emotion in his youth for his irrational behavior at Yiling. He didn't know how to behave, acting on his emotions alone, rather than controlling them and using smart strategies.
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straight up weed no angel dust, label us Notorious..."--Biggie
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Unread postby Zhou Gongjin » Fri Aug 02, 2002 7:25 am

I would say the fictional Liu Bei was a whining child who lived off of others untill he eventualy gave up on propriety and (yet again) backstab his relative to get Yi Zhou.
After the Han Zhong campaign, Liu Bei became too important, so he became arrogant, self centered and prideful. At Yi Ling, Liu bei showed that he could not handle being Emperor, and that he put emotions beyond duty.
My conclusion is that Liu Bei would make a good lower official like Liu Bang, but not a great Emperor like Liu Bang.
I guess Liu Bei misread what the heaven intended for him. Ne?
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Unread postby Iznoach, Legendary Dragon » Fri Aug 02, 2002 8:12 am

Zhou Gongjin wrote:I would say the fictional Liu Bei was a whining child who lived off of others untill he eventualy gave up on propriety and (yet again) backstab his relative to get Yi Zhou.
After the Han Zhong campaign, Liu Bei became too important, so he became arrogant, self centered and prideful. At Yi Ling, Liu bei showed that he could not handle being Emperor, and that he put emotions beyond duty.
My conclusion is that Liu Bei would make a good lower official like Liu Bang, but not a great Emperor like Liu Bang.
I guess Liu Bei misread what the heaven intended for him. Ne?


I guess you're right (grudgingly), since he attained his desires only to lose his sworn brothers and his life soon after... :x
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straight up weed no angel dust, label us Notorious..."--Biggie
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Unread postby Chao Tzu Lung1 » Fri Aug 02, 2002 7:37 pm

putting it that way, gaun yu and zhang fei were liu bei's backbone and his motivation. i am so pro shu but not pro liu bei, i think many of the things that ahpepend to shu screwed up their conquest to unify china, same for all 3 kingdoms. liu bei lost his mind when his two brothers were dead. he had no intention to follow the madate of heaven, all he cared for was revenge, nothing else. liu bei did become a lil child after the deaths of guan and zhang. he proved that with his acts at yi ling. i feel him taking over liu zhang land was wrong yes but if he didnl;t take it, a family member, then wei(enemy) or Wu(enemy) would have evenually conquered liu zhang, for liu zhang was not that strong of a ruler. so his act there was bit a immoral, had to be done to establish the empire of shu.
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Unread postby Zhou Gongjin » Fri Aug 02, 2002 7:50 pm

Chao Tzu Lung1 wrote: i feel him taking over liu zhang land was wrong yes but if he didnl;t take it, a family member, then wei(enemy) or Wu(enemy) would have evenually conquered liu zhang, for liu zhang was not that strong of a ruler. so his act there was bit a immoral, had to be done to establish the empire of shu.


If Wu just kill off Liu Bei during Chi Bi, take Yizhou and oppose Cao Cao, then things would be a lot better for everyone. :lol:
Seems like a good solution to me
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