What was Wei Yan's intention before death?

Join the Romance of the Three Kingdoms discussion with our resident Scholars. Topics relating to the novel and history are both welcome. Don't forget to check the Forum Rules before posting.
Kongming’s Archives: Romance of the Three Kingdoms
Three Kingdoms Officer Biographies
Three Kingdoms Officer Encyclopedia
Scholars of Shen Zhou Search Tool

What was Wei Yan's intention before death?

Unread postby Aname » Sat Aug 09, 2003 11:07 pm

In SGYY, Wei Yan seemed to be killed caz of betrayal to Shu. But I doubt about his intention... and I really want to know more about that.
All I know and read is:
1. Wei Yan insisted to conquer the north (Wei), even though Zhouge, the commander, was dead.
2. Wei Yan wanted to betray Shu and tried to escape to Wei.
3. Wei Yan led his own troop to battle other Shu troops as to prevent they from going back to Yi Zhou.
After analyzing 1, 2 & 3, my mind is still full of ''???'' , who can tell me what happened at that Shu army's retreat, Wei yan's death, and his intention?
.......
Aname
Apprentice
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 7:58 am
Location: HK, or USA

Unread postby Aname » Sat Aug 09, 2003 11:09 pm

P.S: even SGZ doesn't state about Wei Yan's death clearly.... seems like something is masked...
.......
Aname
Apprentice
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 7:58 am
Location: HK, or USA

Unread postby TheGreatNads » Sat Aug 09, 2003 11:10 pm

Aname wrote:P.S: even SGZ doesn't state about Wei Yan's death clearly.... seems like something is masked...


So.... Is you're question about SGZ or SGYY?
TheGreatNads
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1632
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 2:02 am
Location: nowhere new, ever

Unread postby Aname » Sun Aug 10, 2003 12:40 am

Well, in fact, I wanna collect any possible data to analyze
from SGYY, from SGZ, or from whatever...
.......
Aname
Apprentice
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 7:58 am
Location: HK, or USA

Unread postby Exar Kun » Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:22 am

SGZ and other various sources point to Wei Yan's intentions.They don't state(and neither do I believe) that he was planning on defecting to Wei.

Wei Yan wanted to be the new chief general,Grand Commander,Regent Marshall,same thing.

Yang Yi and others used Zhuge's orders to retreat the army.Wei yan felt that control should automatically revert to him since he is 2nd in command.He wants to continue the fight.Yang Yi takes the army so he's angry.He either is unaware of,or is ignoring Zhuge's retreat order.

He takes his force and decides to beat them to Cheng Du.He burns all the plank roads along the way.This is traitorous act #1.Yang Yi realizes this and fixes roads on his way back.They both send memorials saying the other is rebelling.The court believes Yang Yi.

When Yang Yi's force catches up,Wei Yan attacks them.This is traitourous act #2.Yan's soldiers realize he's wrong so they all abandon him and Wang Pang defeats his force.Ma Dai later catches up with him and kills him.

I agree with Chen Shou that his intent was simply to kill Yang Yi and those in disagreement with him in the hope that he would be made chief general.However,the way in which he did these things makes him a traitor.
"Two there should be; no more, no less.
One to embody the power, the other to crave it."
-Creed of the New Sith-
User avatar
Exar Kun
Dark Lord of the Sith
 
Posts: 3344
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 12:18 am
Location: Cruising the Nether

Unread postby Devilrai » Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:23 am

This is what i may think of what he would of done if he was not killed by Ma Dai, is that correct? Anyway Wei Yan wanted Liu Bei join his force in Xiang Yang, but he did not do so, Liu Beu went on to Liu Qi, it was because of this he had to leave Liu Biao, so he went to the south to join Han Xuan. So maybe he wanted to take revenge on the Shu forces before, and after Zhuge Liang's death, but he was killed to soon for anything to happan, it can be a possiblity that he was tring to repent for what he did, that was kill Han Xuan.

Hopefully this will be of some help, if not...oh well, I tried.
Last edited by Devilrai on Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:10 am, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
Devilrai
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 982
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 6:09 am

Unread postby TheGreatNads » Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:48 am

Exar Kun wrote:SGZ and other various sources point to Wei Yan's intentions.They don't state(and neither do I believe) that he was planning on defecting to Wei.

Wei Yan wanted to be the new chief general,Grand Commander,Regent Marshall,same thing.

Yang Yi and others used Zhuge's orders to retreat the army.Wei yan felt that control should automatically revert to him since he is 2nd in command.He wants to continue the fight.Yang Yi takes the army so he's angry.He either is unaware of,or is ignoring Zhuge's retreat order.

He takes his force and decides to beat them to Cheng Du.He burns all the plank roads along the way.This is traitorous act #1.Yang Yi realizes this and fixes roads on his way back.They both send memorials saying the other is rebelling.The court believes Yang Yi.

When Yang Yi's force catches up,Wei Yan attacks them.This is traitourous act #2.Yan's soldiers realize he's wrong so they all abandon him and Wang Pang defeats his force.Ma Dai later catches up with him and kills him.

I agree with Chen Shou that his intent was simply to kill Yang Yi and those in disagreement with him in the hope that he would be made chief general.However,the way in which he did these things makes him a traitor.


I guess this would make Yang Yi a traitor too, right? I mean, he gave orders to Fei Yi, Wang Ping, and Ma Dai. Who made Yang Yi commander? That gives Wei Yan justification for attacking Yang Yi.
TheGreatNads
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1632
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 2:02 am
Location: nowhere new, ever

Unread postby Aname » Sun Aug 10, 2003 3:05 am

Thanks for Exar's post, I now have a deeper sight into this mistery.
And Blue Moon inspired me of another new idea: What if Wei Yan defeated Yang Yi?
I think his intension would had changed into---- becoming the new Shu Empiror....
.......
Aname
Apprentice
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 7:58 am
Location: HK, or USA

Unread postby Aname » Sun Aug 10, 2003 4:02 am

If Zhuge failed to conquer Wei b'coz of refusing to take Wei Yan's suggestion nor put him into good use, then assume Wei Yan defeated Yang Yi and took the absolute control of the Shu army, will he succeed Liu Bei's and Zhuge's dream to vanish Wei and revive Han Denisty?
.......
Aname
Apprentice
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 7:58 am
Location: HK, or USA

Unread postby TheGreatNads » Sun Aug 10, 2003 4:10 am

Aname wrote:If Zhuge failed to conquer Wei b'coz of refusing to take Wei Yan's suggestion nor put him into good use, then assume Wei Yan defeated Yang Yi and took the absolute control of the Shu army, will he succeed Liu Bei's and Zhuge's dream to vanish Wei and revive Han Denisty?


No, Wei Yan didn't have enough support to sucessfully control the armies. :cry:
TheGreatNads
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1632
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 2:02 am
Location: nowhere new, ever

Next

Return to Sanguo Yanyi Symposium

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved