Were the Nanman Mongolian? Chinese?

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Were the Nanman Mongolian? Chinese?

Unread postby Lord Sun Ce » Thu Aug 07, 2003 1:48 am

Meng Huo and his horde were defeated by Zhuge Liang's great wit(7 times HAHA) but were the nanman chinese? :twisted: :?:
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Re: Were the Nanman Mongolian? Chinese?

Unread postby Han Xin » Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:49 am

Lord Sun Ce wrote:Meng Huo and his horde were defeated by Zhuge Liang's great wit(7 times HAHA) but were the nanman chinese? :twisted: :?:

Some suggestion that they were the ancestor of the modern day Thai and Laos people. Meng Huo was minor player anyhow, he serve Gao Ding then incited the Nanman to revolt. Zhuge Liang probably tried to scared off other local tribes who might thought of supporting Meng Huo.
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Re: Were the Nanman Mongolian? Chinese?

Unread postby Morg » Thu Aug 07, 2003 8:31 am

Lord Sun Ce wrote:Meng Huo and his horde were defeated by Zhuge Liang's great wit(7 times HAHA) but were the nanman chinese? :twisted: :?:


The Nanman were not Chinese as we know them. Originally China consisted of just tribes but the Huaxia tribe became the largest of all of them, eventually they accounted for the majority of China's population. Around 200BC the tribe named themselves "Han", these are now the people that we call Chinese (their official name is Han Chinese). So the Nanman were Chinese in that they were born there etc but they are a different race to the Chinese people of today.

It's believed that the Nanman occupied the Yunnan region of China and there are still tribes that live there today. I made a long post about this elsewhere on the forum:
http://the-scholars.com/viewtopic.php?t ... &start=540
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Unread postby Shadowlink » Thu Aug 07, 2003 1:17 pm

i don't think they are mongolians either because Meng Huo was in the south near the Yi Province and Mongolians or Hun are near the liang Province where MA Chao gov when his father was still alive also it is near chang an i don't think they are chinese.
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Unread postby Antiochus » Thu Aug 07, 2003 10:59 pm

The could not be mongolians since they came from the south but they could come from India or Vitnam. Or they could be chinesse
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Unread postby Mega Zarak » Fri Aug 08, 2003 6:08 am

Here's another nice website that covers the word "Miao" and if you read till the end, it gives a relation between "Miao" and "Nanman".

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miao

Yet another nice writeup.

http://www.peopleteams.org/miao/MiaoHmong.htm
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Unread postby Morg » Fri Aug 08, 2003 8:13 am

Great Deer wrote:Here's another nice website that covers the word "Miao" and if you read till the end, it gives a relation between "Miao" and "Nanman".

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miao

Yet another nice writeup.

http://www.peopleteams.org/miao/MiaoHmong.htm


Those are 2 very good sources which I used when putting together that post in the Q+A thread as they explain exactly what was happening back then in terms of the tribes and pretty much where they are now. What I don't get is when there are resources like this out there with the knowledge commonly available, why there is still confusion over who and where the Nanman were.
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Unread postby Jiang Qin » Sat Nov 29, 2003 5:37 pm

nanman are the tribe folks near present day Yunnan province

but, NAIMAN are Mongolians near the remote nothern area of china, near a lake (dunno wat name)
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Unread postby Wen Choung » Sun Nov 30, 2003 5:17 am

This is my own perception on this question, which I developed all by myself with my own limited knowledge. I think it would be interesting to share it with you all, and any and all corrections are welcome!

The way I thought of it was that Meng Huo and the Nanman tribes were "just there." When Zhuge Liang subdued them, the Nanman assimilated into Chinese culture. From looking at the maps [in the RoTK games], it appears to me that the Nanman occupied what is modern day Guangzhong (or Canton or something with a Guang in it) or so.

My parents being from Canton, and so also since I live in Chicago and most of the Chinese people here are generally from that area, I sometimes hear about how "uneducated" (for a lack of a better term, maybe "unrefined" may be a better term) people from Guangzhong are considered by people from the more Northern areas of China.

Therefore, I attributed this to how the Nanman, being barbarians, were made assimilated and eventually became unrefined and such.

I am positive this idea is not true, or at least maybe partially true, so I would like to know where I am wrong - or maybe I am right?
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Unread postby Koichi » Wed Dec 03, 2003 1:06 am

Wen Choung wrote:This is my own perception on this question, which I developed all by myself with my own limited knowledge. I think it would be interesting to share it with you all, and any and all corrections are welcome!

The way I thought of it was that Meng Huo and the Nanman tribes were "just there." When Zhuge Liang subdued them, the Nanman assimilated into Chinese culture. From looking at the maps [in the RoTK games], it appears to me that the Nanman occupied what is modern day Guangzhong (or Canton or something with a Guang in it) or so.

My parents being from Canton, and so also since I live in Chicago and most of the Chinese people here are generally from that area, I sometimes hear about how "uneducated" (for a lack of a better term, maybe "unrefined" may be a better term) people from Guangzhong are considered by people from the more Northern areas of China.

Therefore, I attributed this to how the Nanman, being barbarians, were made assimilated and eventually became unrefined and such.

I am positive this idea is not true, or at least maybe partially true, so I would like to know where I am wrong - or maybe I am right?


Actually I found a map of the 3k in a historical atlas and they too relate the Nanman with the Thai people living slightly to the south. The region inhabited by the Nanman seemed to be present-day Yunnan province but I too have heard people claim Guangdong (my home province as well) were under Nanman influence.

This is a sketchy argument because Guangzhou was colonized by the Han. Maps have shown Han influence extending to Northern Vietnam in the city of Jiaozhi (this city was brought up near the end of the novel) so Guangzhou technically would fall under the territory of the Han dynasty Jiaozhou. I was also under the impression Guangzhou was one of the better developed of the far Southern Han period cities, it certainly was in the later dynasties.
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