Learning more about the historical Zhou Yu

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Learning more about the historical Zhou Yu

Unread postby Zhou yu Madam » Fri Jul 25, 2003 3:24 pm

I want to know very much, having the historical person in Zhou yu in real understanding here? :x
Edit from James: title changed.
Edit from LT: Calm down on use of smilies.
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Re: You real understanding Zhou yu ?

Unread postby Lady Zhuge » Fri Jul 25, 2003 4:41 pm

Zhou yu Madam wrote:I want to know very much, having the historical person in Zhou yu in real understanding here? :x :x :x :x :x


Please enlighten us on what exactly you mean by this.
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Unread postby Sima Yi of Wei » Fri Jul 25, 2003 9:35 pm

Wanna know about Zhou Yu huh? Is that what your suggesting?

Well, he was a good friend of Sun Ce, And protected Sun Ce quite alot, and aiding Lu Xun was the Stratigiest of Wu.Bakc to the Protecting point of Zhou Yum do Wu's Musou mode on DW4, and look at movie 9 when unlocked from the options and movie selections. BTw, he also had a sword ;)
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Unread postby TheGreatNads » Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:33 am

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Unread postby Lady Zhuge » Sat Jul 26, 2003 4:49 pm

Now that I reread her question, I don't think she wants to learn about the historical Zhou Yu. After all, she has a whole website made for him in Chinese. Maybe she wants to know if WE have a real understanding of the historical Zhou Yu, instead of the narrow-minded one portrayed in the novel?
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Unread postby TheGreatNads » Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:28 pm

Lady Zhuge wrote:Now that I reread her question, I don't think she wants to learn about the historical Zhou Yu. After all, she has a whole website made for him in Chinese. Maybe she wants to know if WE have a real understanding of the historical Zhou Yu, instead of the narrow-minded one portrayed in the novel?


Well, the Zhou Yu in the novel was a more impressive strategist. Capturing Deng Long alive and recomending Gan Ning are the only impressive things he has ever done. Zhou Yu is overated.
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Unread postby Shadowlink » Mon Jul 28, 2003 12:50 pm

I heard Zhou yu was a demon in Dw4 but he is not. Zhou Yu revruit Lu Su. he was the Prime Mininster of Wu. He help alot in the battle of Chibi. He never die because of Zhuge Liang. Zhou yu has Da Qiao as a wife. his sworn brother was Sun Ce. they alot of history about so just click on the link http://www.kongming.net/novel/sgz/zhouyu.php
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Unread postby Yorak » Mon Jul 28, 2003 1:23 pm

Well, the Zhou Yu in the novel was a more impressive strategist. Capturing Deng Long alive and recomending Gan Ning are the only impressive things he has ever done. Zhou Yu is overated.


I agree...kind of.

I'll have to bring up Chi Bi, first off; not so much the fire attack, but his assessment of the situation, and the shock attack on Cao Cao (yes, Liu Bei deserves a lot of credit for that, too). While I'm not entirely sure it qualifies as brilliant, it's still good generalship.

Zhou Yu is sort of an odd character, in that he's demonized in the novel, and glorified by his admirers. I try to look at him for what he was: a good, solid general and a good person. He might not have been a genious, but he was smart. He certianly wasn't a petty, small-minded, jealous little man. He rendered good service to his state and was known as a fine gentleman. He doesn't need to be any more or less than that.
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Unread postby Zhou Gongjin » Wed Jul 30, 2003 11:33 pm

TheGreatNads wrote:
Well, the Zhou Yu in the novel was a more impressive strategist. Capturing Deng Long alive and recomending Gan Ning are the only impressive things he has ever done. Zhou Yu is overated.


Right.:roll:
It never ceased to amaze me how narrowminded people are about Zhou Yu. First of all, saying that Zhou Yu was overrated is a pretty odd, since in the novel he was nothing but the guy who kept getting screwed by Zhuge Liang. He was given a lot of bad personality traits, and he was ridiculed after his death. From a novel point of view, Zhou Yu was not rated that high.
Secondly, Zhou Yu did more than you claim, and you know it. He worked very hard to get Sun Ce and Sun Quan in a better position in the south, and I don't think your attitude towards his effort do him any credit.
Although Chi-bi was not the greatest naval battle in Chinese history, it did however accomplish what was needed. An inferior forced stopped a superior force from taking their land, and in the aftermath they where able to drive Cao Cao out of Nan and into Xiangyang. After that, Cao Cao did not attempt to invade the south by those means again. So in that way, Zhou Yu had kept Cao Cao out of Wu for the remainder of the latter's life.

If you need help understanding the importance of Zhou Yu, maybe you should read Generals of the South, it may be a good start in learning how to appreciate people.
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Unread postby Mega Zarak » Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:29 am

Gir wrote:Right.:roll:
It never ceased to amaze me how narrowminded people are about Zhou Yu. First of all, saying that Zhou Yu was overrated is a pretty odd, since in the novel he was nothing but the guy who kept getting screwed by Zhuge Liang. He was given a lot of bad personality traits, and he was ridiculed after his death. From a novel point of view, Zhou Yu was not rated that high.


In the novel, Zhuge Liang was the first and foremost in terms of intelligence. Characters whom LGZ wanted to portray as second to Zhuge Liang were often "ridiculed" in one way or another and IMO, Zhou Yu fell into that category (think of others like Sima Yi, Pang Tong, etc. :roll: ). From the novel point of view, if LGZ didn't want to portray Zhou Yu as the second best of his time, he wouldn't choose Zhou Yu to be the part of an intense rivalry with the best boy Zhuge Liang. In fact, at times, Zhou Yu was placed in an even higher regard than Cao Cao in the novel.

Gir wrote:Secondly, Zhou Yu did more than you claim, and you know it. He worked very hard to get Sun Ce and Sun Quan in a better position in the south, and I don't think your attitude towards his effort do him any credit.
Although Chi-bi was not the greatest naval battle in Chinese history, it did however accomplish what was needed. An inferior forced stopped a superior force from taking their land, and in the aftermath they where able to drive Cao Cao out of Nan and into Xiangyang. After that, Cao Cao did not attempt to invade the south by those means again. So in that way, Zhou Yu had kept Cao Cao out of Wu for the remainder of the latter's life.

If you need help understanding the importance of Zhou Yu, maybe you should read Generals of the South, it may be a good start in learning how to appreciate people.


Not many of us are privileged to read GoS. If possible, can you list some of Rafe's points here together with the relevant references that he used? Some issues that I'm interested in are:

i) Zhou Yu's initial role with Sun Ce

ii) Zhou Yu's role in Chi Bi

Thank you for your time. :D
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