If Guan Yu didn’t aid Liu Bei, would he have succeeded?

Join the Romance of the Three Kingdoms discussion with our resident Scholars. Topics relating to the novel and history are both welcome. Don't forget to check the Forum Rules before posting.
Kongming’s Archives: Romance of the Three Kingdoms
Three Kingdoms Officer Biographies
Three Kingdoms Officer Encyclopedia
Scholars of Shen Zhou Search Tool

If Guan Yu didn't exist, Xuande successful?

No!
16
44%
Don't know.
4
11%
Yes!
16
44%
 
Total votes : 36

If Guan Yu didn’t aid Liu Bei, would he have succeeded?

Unread postby GuanYu » Mon Jul 14, 2003 6:30 pm

Many people don't like Guan Yu, mainly because you think that he didn't accomplish anything, and he is too stubborn.
If Guan Yu didn't exist, will Xuande be successful?

Edit by James: New thread title.
User avatar
GuanYu
Langzhong
 
Posts: 488
Joined: Mon May 05, 2003 9:45 pm

Unread postby Sun Bofu » Mon Jul 14, 2003 11:12 pm

I think Liu Xuande would be put in a compermising situation, seeing as how at one point he told Guan Yu to keep watch over the Jingzhou province which was disputed territory with Wu. If Guan Yu did not exist that would leave Zhang Fei, Haun Zhong, or Wei Yan, who all if I'm not mistaken were fighting Wei at the time. So no one whould be left to guard Jingzhou and it would still be in Wu hands. If Guan Yu did not exist I think Lu Meng would've obviously lived longer and would dueled Zhang Fei on more than one occasion, Which would have in turn led to many stalemates between Wu and Shu.
"Your words, O Wise One, are as gold and precious stones, but I fear that my soldiers will not carry out my commands unless I myself share their dangers."
User avatar
Sun Bofu
Changshi
 
Posts: 390
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2002 6:07 pm
Location: Jian Ye

Unread postby Yuan Seth » Tue Jul 15, 2003 12:55 am

I think without Guan Yu, Liu Xuande wouldn't have made that oath, and wouldn't have had the motivation to go and make a stand against the corruption. Therefore, Cao Cao would take Yi Zhou easily. (Probably because Liu Zhang would surrender) It would just make things easier for Cao Cao if Guan Yu didn't show up.

If you are one who believes Guan Yu was the sole reason why Cao Cao beat Yuan Shao, then it would be the great Yuan Shao who could have unified all of China. ^_^
袁 "Since the dawn of time every one will die,
Let the history books note my death with loyalty at heart." --Wen Tianxiang
User avatar
Yuan Seth
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 676
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2002 4:05 am
Location: Outskirts of Beiping - Driving Gongsun Zan to suicide

Unread postby Mr. Counsellor » Tue Jul 15, 2003 9:30 am

Without Guan Yu, Liu Bei could and would most probably find a different sworn brother (novel) or loyal companion (history).
Had Guan Yu not been there, someone else would've killed Yan Liang (of of Yuan Shao's prized officers) and that could mean only a short delay for Cao Cao's eventual victory.
Had Guan Yu not been there, no one would've told the Wei officers to beware of Zhang Fei (novel only I think), resulting in Zhang Fei getting trampled by the advancing Wei forces unafraid of him at Chang Ban...

But this is just too much of a time-travelling, full-of-assumptions thread that I myself have to admit that changing a critical figure in the novel and Liu Bei's life would've had too much of an impact in how things could happen that it's all too confusing!!! :roll:
i sometimes put a carton of milk in the dryer so that there's an equal distribution of the force shaking it. Tastes like lint though...
User avatar
Mr. Counsellor
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1333
Joined: Thu May 22, 2003 6:22 pm
Location: PH

Unread postby TheGreatNads » Tue Jul 15, 2003 3:51 pm

Without Guan Yu, Liu Bei wouldn't have made so many stupid mistakes. And Wei's generals wouldn't have as many accomplishments. :lol:
TheGreatNads
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1632
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 2:02 am
Location: nowhere new, ever

Unread postby Cao Ren » Tue Jul 15, 2003 5:47 pm

Without Guan Yu, Liu Bei wouldn't have made so many stupid mistakes. And Wei's generals wouldn't have as many accomplishments.


Haha so true.
User avatar
Cao Ren
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 897
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2002 4:17 pm

Unread postby Asellas » Tue Jul 15, 2003 6:21 pm

I think Liu bei would have made a bigger fool out of himself. Lui Bei would have probably perished int he Yellow Scarfs rebellion if it wern't for Guan Yu helping him kill the yellow scarfs.
I think there wouldn't have been much difference but Guan Yu did make Lui bei successful in the end.
Guan Yu also pushed him to continues fighting and to keep up fighting.
Yeah, I am a Guan Yu loyalist.
"Winter is coming".
"I like hurting people...it's what I do best because I am heartless".
"Love is for poets, romance is for playwrights, and sex is for procreation - I desire none of them"
User avatar
Asellas
Lord of Winterfell
 
Posts: 4043
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 4:12 pm
Location: Winterfell

Unread postby Separation Anxiety » Tue Jul 15, 2003 8:53 pm

Sun Bofu wrote:I think Liu Xuande would be put in a compermising situation, seeing as how at one point he told Guan Yu to keep watch over the Jingzhou province which was disputed territory with Wu. If Guan Yu did not exist that would leave Zhang Fei, Haun Zhong, or Wei Yan, who all if I'm not mistaken were fighting Wei at the time. So no one whould be left to guard Jingzhou and it would still be in Wu hands. If Guan Yu did not exist I think Lu Meng would've obviously lived longer and would dueled Zhang Fei on more than one occasion, Which would have in turn led to many stalemates between Wu and Shu.



Zhao Zilong could have stayed
Separation Anxiety
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 3467
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 9:40 pm
Location: The search party never came...

Unread postby Ma Zhi Xuan » Wed Jul 16, 2003 5:31 pm

Maybe if Guan Yu didn't exist Liu Bei would've probaly submitted Jingzhou once obtaining Shu because there would've been knowone strong enough to take the responsibilty, thus no big argument with Wu and no Yi Ling. And Liu Bei could've lived longer :D , and with more troops, morale, food and generals, Zhuge Liang would've kicked Wei's ass, whilst Wu could've obtained He Fei.
I love guy, but his non-existence could've prevented a whole lot of bad stuff that happened.
User avatar
Ma Zhi Xuan
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1079
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2003 7:49 pm
Location: In the Symphony of Destruction. Clashing the cymbols.

Unread postby Shadowlink » Wed Jul 16, 2003 6:01 pm

Dian_Wei wrote:
Sun Bofu wrote:I think Liu Xuande would be put in a compermising situation, seeing as how at one point he told Guan Yu to keep watch over the Jingzhou province which was disputed territory with Wu. If Guan Yu did not exist that would leave Zhang Fei, Haun Zhong, or Wei Yan, who all if I'm not mistaken were fighting Wei at the time. So no one whould be left to guard Jingzhou and it would still be in Wu hands. If Guan Yu did not exist I think Lu Meng would've obviously lived longer and would dueled Zhang Fei on more than one occasion, Which would have in turn led to many stalemates between Wu and Shu.



Zhao Zilong could have stayed
Yeah give Zhao Yun some Credit.
Ember Fox wrote:I think Liu bei would have made a bigger fool out of himself. Lui Bei would have probably perished int he Yellow Scarfs rebellion if it wern't for Guan Yu helping him kill the yellow scarfs.
I think there wouldn't have been much difference but Guan Yu did make Lui bei successful in the end.
Guan Yu also pushed him to continues fighting and to keep up fighting.
Yeah, I am a Guan Yu loyalist.
I'm also a Guan Yu Loyalist. With out Guan Yu loyally he will not become famous. also Guan Yu slain alot of people during his lifetime like about 12-15 people. Zhang Fei slain 3 and Zhao Yun slain 8. Huang Zhong SLian 1 and Ma Chao i forgot how many people he slain but Guan Yu slain the most. also Guan Yu is the leader of the five tiger generals.
User avatar
Shadowlink
Langzhong
 
Posts: 4883
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2002 5:57 pm

Next

Return to Sanguo Yanyi Symposium

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 3 guests

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved