If Chen Gong Killed Cao Cao

Join the Romance of the Three Kingdoms discussion with our resident Scholars. Topics relating to the novel and history are both welcome. Don't forget to check the Forum Rules before posting.
Kongming’s Archives: Romance of the Three Kingdoms
Three Kingdoms Officer Biographies
Three Kingdoms Officer Encyclopedia
Scholars of Shen Zhou Search Tool

If Chen Gong Killed Cao Cao

Unread postby PoYpOy87 » Thu Jul 10, 2003 5:15 pm

If Chen Gong Killed Cao Cao, which ruler or person would have the best chance of doing what Cao Cao did or maybe even better with him out of the picture? Why?
PoYpOy87
 

Re: If Chen Gong Killed Cao Cao

Unread postby GuanYu » Thu Jul 10, 2003 5:23 pm

PoYpOy87 wrote:If Chen Gong Killed Cao Cao, which ruler or person would have the best chance of doing what Cao Cao did or maybe even better with him out of the picture? Why?


If Cao Cao died, Si Ma Yi would be the best ruler!
User avatar
GuanYu
Langzhong
 
Posts: 488
Joined: Mon May 05, 2003 9:45 pm

Unread postby Zhou Gongjin » Thu Jul 10, 2003 5:30 pm

*sighs and silently answers*

Well, let's say that Chen Gong killed Cao Cao. He would be arrested, and executed for killing an official, if he were caught in Han teritory, or he would have revered as a hero if he went back to Dong Zhuo with Cao Cao's head.
Novelwise, the alliance would not have been formed, or would have been less powerful.
To make a long story short, it didn't happen.
He who exercises government by means of his virtue may be compared to the north polar star, which keeps its place and all the stars turn towards it.
-孔夫子
User avatar
Zhou Gongjin
鋼のチビ
 
Posts: 3357
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2002 3:49 pm
Location: the Doghouse

Unread postby someguy44 » Thu Jul 10, 2003 7:35 pm

If Chen Kong killed Cao Cao, then there will not be a Wei. Sima Yi didn't even come into the picture till much much later so he definitely wouldn't have had an influence.

Cao Cao's ambition and determination drove him to be one of the three rulers of the Three Kingdoms. If Cao Cao had died early on, then China would've been either Wu's or Shu's. And it probably would just be a 2 kingdoms war instead of 3.
I am Zhao ZiLong of ChangShan!!!
User avatar
someguy44
Initiate
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2003 2:23 am

Unread postby Zhou Gongjin » Thu Jul 10, 2003 9:14 pm

someguy44 wrote:Cao Cao's ambition and determination drove him to be one of the three rulers of the Three Kingdoms. If Cao Cao had died early on, then China would've been either Wu's or Shu's. And it probably would just be a 2 kingdoms war instead of 3.


I somehow don't see that happening at all. I think the rivalry between Yuan Shu, Yuan Shao and others like Dong Zhuo and Gongsun Zan would form the forefront of the story.
It seems more likely, since at that time Liu Bei was just a small fry under Gongsun Zan anyways.
I do think that at one point the Sun family would become involved, and it would be something like Yuan-Sun-Imperial Liu. Or something, I dunno, it's all just speculation.
He who exercises government by means of his virtue may be compared to the north polar star, which keeps its place and all the stars turn towards it.
-孔夫子
User avatar
Zhou Gongjin
鋼のチビ
 
Posts: 3357
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2002 3:49 pm
Location: the Doghouse

Unread postby Jon » Thu Jul 10, 2003 9:24 pm

Call me a n00b for saying this, but, if Cao Cao had been killed by Chen Gong, wouldn't Liu Biao expand his influence to the north? I'm probably wrong about that. But it doesn't seem like it would be possible for Liu Bei to gain power, to me atleast. Sun Ce would live longer I think. I don't know what else would happen, though.
Jon
Ladies' Man
 
Posts: 1821
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 3:06 am

Unread postby Zhou Gongjin » Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:31 pm

Zhou Lang wrote:Call me a n00b for saying this, but, if Cao Cao had been killed by Chen Gong, wouldn't Liu Biao expand his influence to the north? I'm probably wrong about that. But it doesn't seem like it would be possible for Liu Bei to gain power, to me atleast. Sun Ce would live longer I think. I don't know what else would happen, though.


Why would Liu Biao expand his power north? If you remember correctly, the incident with Chen Gong was prior to Dong Zhuo's death. Hence, Liu Biao would be fighting with Yuan Shu, and wouldn't dare to move against Dong Zhuo in the north unless he was part of some real alliance.
He who exercises government by means of his virtue may be compared to the north polar star, which keeps its place and all the stars turn towards it.
-孔夫子
User avatar
Zhou Gongjin
鋼のチビ
 
Posts: 3357
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2002 3:49 pm
Location: the Doghouse

Unread postby someguy44 » Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:52 pm

I somehow don't see that happening at all. I think the rivalry between Yuan Shu, Yuan Shao and others like Dong Zhuo and Gongsun Zan would form the forefront of the story.
It seems more likely, since at that time Liu Bei was just a small fry under Gongsun Zan anyways.
I do think that at one point the Sun family would become involved, and it would be something like Yuan-Sun-Imperial Liu. Or something, I dunno, it's all just speculation.


Actually, I forgot about Yuan Shao. To be honest, I think Yuan Shao would've taken over the territories of Cao Cao had he died. Lie Jue And Guo Si would probably get attacked by Yuan Shao instead of Cao Cao.

Even though Lui Bei was just a small fry at the time, he still had the ambition and desire to conquer. With or without Cao Cao, Shu would've popped up anyways. But that's just my opinion.

Wu wasn't influenced by either of the 2 kingdoms so it wouldn't matter if Cao Cao died or not for them.
I am Zhao ZiLong of ChangShan!!!
User avatar
someguy44
Initiate
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2003 2:23 am

Unread postby Jon » Fri Jul 11, 2003 12:46 am

I think Liu Bei relied on Cao Cao in the beginning, so without him, I doubt Shu would have come into existence. Think, no Cao Cao= no guy for Liu Bei to portray as a villain. He wouldn't be looked upon as a hero, therefore not getting enough support to start a kingdom of his own. Just a n00b's thoughts.
Jon
Ladies' Man
 
Posts: 1821
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 3:06 am

Unread postby Cao Ren » Fri Jul 11, 2003 1:17 am

Zhou Lan wrote:I think Liu Bei relied on Cao Cao in the beginning, so without him, I doubt Shu would have come into existence. Think, no Cao Cao= no guy for Liu Bei to portray as a villain. He wouldn't be looked upon as a hero, therefore not getting enough support to start a kingdom of his own. Just a n00b's thoughts.


I think that although Cao Cao wouldn't be the villian if Liu Bei wanted power badly he would attempt to see the Emperor. He would probably go against Dong Zhou and be admired by the people that way.
User avatar
Cao Ren
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 897
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2002 4:17 pm

Next

Return to Sanguo Yanyi Symposium

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot] and 12 guests

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved