p wrote:So, I believe Cao Cao was not aiming for the thone in begging of his carrer to become an emperor himself but to achieve a high status and postion with the Han government, when did he changes his mind to establish Cao as next dynasty?
p wrote:Ha, now when you went into further, your interpertation actually is much better than my own.
In your second paragraph about Yaun Shao, did he actually have royal blood or you meant to say his come from distinct royal family?
Lui Bei (his name always give me dreadful headche!),
actually he is related to an Emperor of West Han (aka. first Han), but people like that actually is questionable about scuceding the throne.
Any way Morg, so you believe Cao Cao did not have faintest desire to protect Han in his early carrer?
Morg wrote:He would have been seen as a tyrant who was trying to conquer the land for his own selfish means (like Dong Zhuo was seen).
Lord_Kongming wrote:Dong Zhuo was a tyrant. He burned LuoYang and looted all the houses and then he had freakin lu bu dig up the emperors grave. How can you say he was just SEEN as a tyrant because he is the definition.
p wrote:Morg the reason Lui Bei was not my desirable type of man is the way he manipulate the people around. As the the heading of this The way in the world. title suggest. I suppose this is the way that people survive, with Cao Cao, though difficult, you can still speculate a bit from the history to acess the possible reasons behind his want of power, but Lui Bei is whole other matter (to me, anyway). I always have troubles to identify his motives behind all the actions (ie. Lui Bei's attitude if put in morden way, he would not say a word about what he wants until some one put in front of him). ((note: my personal interptation only, not meant to anger Lui Bei fans or try to enlist another arugement).
Morg wrote:Lord_Kongming wrote:Dong Zhuo was a tyrant. He burned LuoYang and looted all the houses and then he had freakin lu bu dig up the emperors grave. How can you say he was just SEEN as a tyrant because he is the definition.
I don't think it's that simple. Dong Zhuo did not have any claim of legitimacy like the others which means that he was seen as being a usurper. As you said, Liu Bei used ancestry to justify his actions, Dong Zhuo had no such excuse.
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