Ma Chao!

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Ma Chao!

Unread postby depressed soul » Fri Jun 20, 2003 7:52 pm

This guy was an ok officer in my opinion...but some of you call him useless and some of you call him great...give your reasons why
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Re: Ma Chao!

Unread postby TheGreatNads » Fri Jun 20, 2003 7:55 pm

depressed soul wrote:This guy was an ok officer in my opinion...but some of you call him useless and some of you call him great...give your reasons why


Well, first one must know the difference between SGYY and SGZ. In case you don't SGYY is a novel with a lot of fiction, and SGZ is a historical source. In SGYY Ma Chao seems great, but in SGZ it's a different story.(Though some people may still like the SGZ Ma Chao.) In SGZ the reason I don't like him is because he caused his father's death, and didn't do much to prove himself as having great ability. That's just my opinion though.
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Unread postby depressed soul » Fri Jun 20, 2003 8:00 pm

is their a link to the sgz? and how did he kill his father?
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Unread postby TheGreatNads » Fri Jun 20, 2003 8:03 pm

depressed soul wrote:is their a link to the sgz?


There is a link to one in Chinese(I don't know the link.), but it isn't translated fully in English yet. If you want some links to English translations I can give them to you.

depressed soul wrote:and how did he kill his father?


He didn't actually kill his father. His father was working under Cao Cao, and Ma Chao rebelled against Cao Cao. Cao Cao then executed Ma Teng.
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Unread postby depressed soul » Fri Jun 20, 2003 8:04 pm

oh ok...any other reasons?
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greatnads, i have a question.....

Unread postby jason1111 » Fri Jun 20, 2003 8:33 pm

now, why did ma chao rebel against cao cao? was it that ma chao wanted to gain more land or was he rebelling because he thought that cao cao was being a usurper? or was it some other reason all together.

the only thing that bothers me about the shu bios is that they seem choppy and in-complete...i have no real basis for this, but when i read the ones from wei or wu, they just seem more complete.
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Re: greatnads, i have a question.....

Unread postby TheGreatNads » Fri Jun 20, 2003 8:36 pm

jason1111 wrote:now, why did ma chao rebel against cao cao? was it that ma chao wanted to gain more land or was he rebelling because he thought that cao cao was being a usurper? or was it some other reason all together.


That is probably something only Ma Chao knows, not Chen Shou.

jason1111 wrote:the only thing that bothers me about the shu bios is that they seem choppy and in-complete...i have no real basis for this, but when i read the ones from wei or wu, they just seem more complete.


See above
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Unread postby Lady Zhuge » Fri Jun 20, 2003 8:39 pm

depressed soul wrote:is their a link to the sgz?


SGZ in Chinese: http://www.guoxue.com/shibu/24shi/sangzz/sgzzml.htm
I forgot which book of Shu his bio is in, though.

Ma Chao's SGZ bio in English, along with the bios of the other "Tiger Generals": http://www.users.bigpond.com/acesc/036.htm

I've never had much of an opinion on Ma Chao.
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Unread postby depressed soul » Fri Jun 20, 2003 8:46 pm

yea and about the tiger generals thing....did the tiger generals really exist or were they made up in the book?
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Unread postby Lady Zhuge » Fri Jun 20, 2003 8:47 pm

depressed soul wrote:yea and about the tiger generals thing....did the tiger generals really exist or were they made up in the book?


The generals themselves existed historically, but they were never officially labeled as the "Tiger Generals" like they are in the book.
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