Wei Yan's plan to take Changan

Join the Romance of the Three Kingdoms discussion with our resident Scholars. Topics relating to the novel and history are both welcome. Don't forget to check the Forum Rules before posting.
Kongming’s Archives: Romance of the Three Kingdoms
Three Kingdoms Officer Biographies
Three Kingdoms Officer Encyclopedia
Scholars of Shen Zhou Search Tool

Wei Yan's plan to take Changan

Unread postby Jiang Zhi » Thu Jun 12, 2003 3:39 am

Do you think it would have worked if the Shu forces went straight for Changan? At that time, it was Xiahou Mao in command of the Wei forces and he (sorry Xiahou Mao :P) isn't that smart, let's just say. If Zhuge Liang had listened to Wei Yan, they wouldn't have so much trouble trying to get through Jieting and Tianshui.......

(Best part is when Zhuge Liang's like "Oh damn, I fell into Jiang Wei's ploy!")

Heh, well, do you think Wei Yan's plan would work?
Jiang Zhi of Foshan, style Maodi
~*!越武帝!*~ - 我愛我的妻子孫尚香!
Nan Hai, Jiaozhou

Laconius Arts and Design My Rot3K fanfiction
User avatar
Jiang Zhi
Sun Shang Xiang's puppy-eyed slave
 
Posts: 3738
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2002 3:07 am
Location: Sun Shang Xiang's bedroom

Re: Wei Yan's plan to take Changan

Unread postby jiuwan » Thu Jun 12, 2003 12:25 pm

Scarlet Laconius wrote:Heh, well, do you think Wei Yan's plan would work?


Would the plan work? Maybe, maybe not.

Was the plan very risky? Yes.

If the plan fails would Shu be in a great deal of trouble? Yes.
jiuwan
Marquis of Shun Ping
 
Posts: 542
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 4:46 am

Re: Wei Yan's plan to take Changan

Unread postby unregistered » Thu Jun 12, 2003 1:25 pm

jiuwan wrote:If the plan fails would Shu be in a great deal of trouble? Yes.

Can you define more clearly what you mean by fail?? Thanks. :P
User avatar
unregistered
Academic
 
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2003 9:00 am
Location: ??

Unread postby Jiang Zhi » Thu Jun 12, 2003 2:29 pm

However, at that time, Shu was against more incompetent commanders from Wei including Xiahou Mao......
Jiang Zhi of Foshan, style Maodi
~*!越武帝!*~ - 我愛我的妻子孫尚香!
Nan Hai, Jiaozhou

Laconius Arts and Design My Rot3K fanfiction
User avatar
Jiang Zhi
Sun Shang Xiang's puppy-eyed slave
 
Posts: 3738
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2002 3:07 am
Location: Sun Shang Xiang's bedroom

Unread postby Mengdez New Book » Thu Jun 12, 2003 3:39 pm

Indeed, Wei Yan's strategy to attack Chang An by surprise was a great idea. The percentage to capture Chang An should be high as Xiahou Mao guarding that city. Anyway, if we look deeper into this strategy, it is too risky. Let say Wei Yan really captured Chang An, how will he defend it against Wei? According to Wei Lue, he was just using 5000 troops to attack Chang An and i don't think this 5000 troops plus those who were surrender can defend the large armies from Wei. Then, Chang An suppose to be surrounded by plains/fields, this made the Wei cavalry easier to move and this will give a huge disadvantage to Shu-Han armies. And, I think this was a plan thought out by Wei Yan after years of experience in guarding Han Zhong, what if Wei didn't know such a route which can launch a surprise attack? If Wei Yan failed it, this will inspire the enemy to think of other route or using the same way to attack you back. Futhermore, the attention that Wei put at Wu was greater than Shu-Han, if Wei Yan won the Chang An war, who know maybe Wei change their policy as well and i don't think Zhuge Liang wanted this thing to happen. :roll:
User avatar
Mengdez New Book
No Title
 
Posts: 645
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2003 4:35 am

Unread postby unregistered » Thu Jun 12, 2003 3:48 pm

Mengdez New Book wrote:Indeed, Wei Yan's strategy to attack Chang An by surprise was a great idea. The percentage to capture Chang An should be high as Xiahou Mao guarding that city. Anyway, if we look deeper into this strategy, it is too risky.


Is this a self-contradiction or what?? :P

Mengdez New Book wrote:Futhermore, the attention that Wei put at Wu was greater than Shu-Han, if Wei Yan won the Chang An war, who know maybe Wei change their policy as well and i don't think Zhuge Liang wanted this thing to happen.

Wasn't Zhuge Liang attention seeking when he launched 5 expeditions in 6 years?? If you recall the arguments of some pro-Zhuge Liang people, they often used the phrase "attack is the best defence" to justify Zhuge Liang's aggressive northern policy.
User avatar
unregistered
Academic
 
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2003 9:00 am
Location: ??

Unread postby Mengdez New Book » Thu Jun 12, 2003 3:57 pm

unregistered wrote:Is this a self-contradiction or what?? :P

I am just using what Wei Yan mainly told us. :?

unregistered wrote:Wasn't Zhuge Liang attention seeking when he launched 5 expeditions in 6 years?? If you recall the arguments of some pro-Zhuge Liang people, they often used the phrase "attack is the best defence" to justify Zhuge Liang's aggressive northern policy.

Look at what strategy used by Wei for the 5 expeditions? Mostly defensive rather than attacking. For Zhuge Liang, it was better to make a different to attack Wei rather than sitting there waiting the moment of death. :?
User avatar
Mengdez New Book
No Title
 
Posts: 645
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2003 4:35 am

Unread postby unregistered » Thu Jun 12, 2003 4:15 pm

Mengdez New Book wrote:I am just using what Wei Yan mainly told us. :?

You first said that Wei Yan's strategy was a good idea and then said that it was too risky. Forget it... :P

Mengdez New Book wrote:Look at what strategy used by Wei for the 5 expeditions? Mostly defensive rather than attacking. For Zhuge Liang, it was better to make a different to attack Wei rather than sitting there waiting the moment of death. :?

Well, if Zhuge Liang captured Chang An and burnt it down, then wouldn't it be a big loss for Wei?? Anyway, I'm not sure what your stand is. :shock:
User avatar
unregistered
Academic
 
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2003 9:00 am
Location: ??

Unread postby Mengdez New Book » Fri Jun 13, 2003 4:18 am

unregistered wrote:You first said that Wei Yan's strategy was a good idea and then said that it was too risky. Forget it... :P

Well, i am try to look at this issue at either way, good idea and bad idea, not that every debate you should have clear stand right (especially those have not been happened like this Wei Yan's idea)? :wink:

unregistered wrote:Well, if Zhuge Liang captured Chang An and burnt it down, then wouldn't it be a big loss for Wei?? Anyway, I'm not sure what your stand is. :shock:

You know Zhuge Liang won't do such a thing, hey, if he burned down the whole Chang An, this made him no different like Dong Zhuo and Cao Cao. So, it is the last thing we should think off. :wink: Then, why people think that the war between Shu-Han and Wei made Wei put more weight into Shu-Han? Yes, Luo Guan Zhong again, inside SGYY, the mainly focus was on Shu-Han activity, this has cause reader to think that Wei put more attention on Shu-Han. :)
Last edited by Mengdez New Book on Fri Jun 13, 2003 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Mengdez New Book
No Title
 
Posts: 645
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2003 4:35 am

Unread postby Sam » Fri Jun 13, 2003 11:08 am

unregistered wrote:Wasn't Zhuge Liang attention seeking when he launched 5 expeditions in 6 years?? If you recall the arguments of some pro-Zhuge Liang people, they often used the phrase "attack is the best defence" to justify Zhuge Liang's aggressive northern policy.


Wu launched more northern campaigns then that of Shu.
Otherwise known as Wang Ping (Zijun)
Sam
Sweeper of Invaders
 
Posts: 2284
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 2:38 pm
Location: Nanjing

Next

Return to Sanguo Yanyi Symposium

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 11 guests

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved