Wei Yan's plan to take Changan

[Jiang Zhi]

Do you think it would have worked if the Shu forces went straight for Changan? At that time, it was Xiahou Mao in command of the Wei forces and he (sorry Xiahou Mao ) isn't that smart, let's just say. If Zhuge Liang had listened to Wei Yan, they wouldn't have so much trouble trying to get through Jieting and Tianshui.......

(Best part is when Zhuge Liang's like "Oh damn, I fell into Jiang Wei's ploy!")

Heh, well, do you think Wei Yan's plan would work?

[jiuwan]

Heh, well, do you think Wei Yan's plan would work?

Would the plan work? Maybe, maybe not.

Was the plan very risky? Yes.

If the plan fails would Shu be in a great deal of trouble? Yes.

[unregistered]

If the plan fails would Shu be in a great deal of trouble? Yes.

Can you define more clearly what you mean by fail?? Thanks.

[Jiang Zhi]

However, at that time, Shu was against more incompetent commanders from Wei including Xiahou Mao......

[Mengdez New Book]

Indeed, Wei Yan's strategy to attack Chang An by surprise was a great idea. The percentage to capture Chang An should be high as Xiahou Mao guarding that city. Anyway, if we look deeper into this strategy, it is too risky. Let say Wei Yan really captured Chang An, how will he defend it against Wei? According to Wei Lue, he was just using 5000 troops to attack Chang An and i don't think this 5000 troops plus those who were surrender can defend the large armies from Wei. Then, Chang An suppose to be surrounded by plains/fields, this made the Wei cavalry easier to move and this will give a huge disadvantage to Shu-Han armies. And, I think this was a plan thought out by Wei Yan after years of experience in guarding Han Zhong, what if Wei didn't know such a route which can launch a surprise attack? If Wei Yan failed it, this will inspire the enemy to think of other route or using the same way to attack you back. Futhermore, the attention that Wei put at Wu was greater than Shu-Han, if Wei Yan won the Chang An war, who know maybe Wei change their policy as well and i don't think Zhuge Liang wanted this thing to happen.

[unregistered]

Indeed, Wei Yan's strategy to attack Chang An by surprise was a great idea. The percentage to capture Chang An should be high as Xiahou Mao guarding that city. Anyway, if we look deeper into this strategy, it is too risky.

Is this a self-contradiction or what??

Futhermore, the attention that Wei put at Wu was greater than Shu-Han, if Wei Yan won the Chang An war, who know maybe Wei change their policy as well and i don't think Zhuge Liang wanted this thing to happen.

Wasn't Zhuge Liang attention seeking when he launched 5 expeditions in 6 years?? If you recall the arguments of some pro-Zhuge Liang people, they often used the phrase "attack is the best defence" to justify Zhuge Liang's aggressive northern policy.

[Mengdez New Book]

Is this a self-contradiction or what??

I am just using what Wei Yan mainly told us.

Wasn't Zhuge Liang attention seeking when he launched 5 expeditions in 6 years?? If you recall the arguments of some pro-Zhuge Liang people, they often used the phrase "attack is the best defence" to justify Zhuge Liang's aggressive northern policy.

Look at what strategy used by Wei for the 5 expeditions? Mostly defensive rather than attacking. For Zhuge Liang, it was better to make a different to attack Wei rather than sitting there waiting the moment of death.

[unregistered]

I am just using what Wei Yan mainly told us.

You first said that Wei Yan's strategy was a good idea and then said that it was too risky. Forget it...

Look at what strategy used by Wei for the 5 expeditions? Mostly defensive rather than attacking. For Zhuge Liang, it was better to make a different to attack Wei rather than sitting there waiting the moment of death.

Well, if Zhuge Liang captured Chang An and burnt it down, then wouldn't it be a big loss for Wei?? Anyway, I'm not sure what your stand is.

[Mengdez New Book]

You first said that Wei Yan's strategy was a good idea and then said that it was too risky. Forget it...

Well, i am try to look at this issue at either way, good idea and bad idea, not that every debate you should have clear stand right (especially those have not been happened like this Wei Yan's idea)?

Well, if Zhuge Liang captured Chang An and burnt it down, then wouldn't it be a big loss for Wei?? Anyway, I'm not sure what your stand is.

You know Zhuge Liang won't do such a thing, hey, if he burned down the whole Chang An, this made him no different like Dong Zhuo and Cao Cao. So, it is the last thing we should think off. Then, why people think that the war between Shu-Han and Wei made Wei put more weight into Shu-Han? Yes, Luo Guan Zhong again, inside SGYY, the mainly focus was on Shu-Han activity, this has cause reader to think that Wei put more attention on Shu-Han.

[Sam]

Wasn't Zhuge Liang attention seeking when he launched 5 expeditions in 6 years?? If you recall the arguments of some pro-Zhuge Liang people, they often used the phrase "attack is the best defence" to justify Zhuge Liang's aggressive northern policy.

Wu launched more northern campaigns then that of Shu.