Was Lu Meng Wu's most talented officer

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Was Lu Meng Wu's most talented officer

Unread postby The Handsome Zhou » Wed Jun 04, 2003 3:26 pm

I think Lu Meng is better than any other Wu officer. Most may disagree, but I think Lu Meng was the best strategist Wu ever had.
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Unread postby unregistered » Wed Jun 04, 2003 3:31 pm

Nope, IMO, he might not be the best. Some of his expansionist policies didn't work too well for Wu in the long term. Besides, the issue of Lu Meng taking the lion' share in terms of credits for obtaining Jing Zhou is debatable. :P
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Unread postby TheGreatNads » Wed Jun 04, 2003 3:59 pm

unregistered wrote:Nope, IMO, he might not be the best. Some of his expansionist policies didn't work too well for Wu in the long term. Besides, the issue of Lu Meng taking the lion' share in terms of credits for obtaining Jing Zhou is debatable. :P


I would like to ask you your opinion on that. Who do you think was the biggest contributor and why? I'm curious. In my opinion Lu Meng was the biggest contributor.

Anyway, Lu Meng was definatley the most talented general and strategist of Wu that I have read the biography of. :D
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Unread postby unregistered » Wed Jun 04, 2003 4:55 pm

To me, Lu Meng was more of a capable military commander but he wasn't that complete compared to Lu Xun (esp. if we're talking about diplomatic and political skills). Lu Meng gained Jing Zhou for Wu but at the same time, he put Wu in a very risky situation. On Wu's part, it was Lu Xun who stablized it. IMO, Lu Xun was more sensitive to Wu's needs than Lu Meng and the latter tend to do things based on short term gains. :P

To elaborate further, a lot of us tend to judge the abilities of officers using mainly military achievements. Hence, since Wu had only one province to start with, Lu Meng gaining another one (to be exact, part of Jing Zhou) would make him seemed to be the best person that Wu ever had. However, that may not be true if we look at the long term goals and some possible repercussions of his actions.

I would mainly focus on Lu Meng's expansionist policy towards Shu compared to a diplomatic approach. From there, I question Lu Meng's far-sightedness since I viewed his policy as a sub-optimal policy. Here're some points:

i) The alliance would be broken and Wu would need to face two enemies instead of one. I don't recall Lu Meng offering any advice on how to deal with that situation. He died when things were heated up critically.

ii) The only good reap off from betraying the alliance was Jiang Ling. I do not think that Ling Ling, Gui Yang and Wu Ling were worth all that. Still, look at the number of attacks Wu suffered at Jiang Ling. Wu had to spend considerable amount of resources to defend Jiang Ling and this burden could have actually been Shu's. (this is as opposed to the benefits which Lu Meng told Sun Quan, something like taking Guan Yu's land would allow Wu to control Yang Tze).

iii) After acquiring parts of Jing Zhou, Wu didn't have the capability to acquire more lands. IMO, it was not due to the inabilities of her generals but rather, Wu's resources had been stretched fully to defend her larger territory.

iv) As a result of Lu Meng's move, the battle of Yi Ling was fought. The results would be unimaginable had Cao Pi took on the offensive on either of them (and seemingly not enjoying his new-found title).

v) Wu had a long history of internal problems from the various tribes and clans. Could Wu cope with these problems while at the same time facing enemies from two or more fronts?
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Unread postby The Handsome Zhou » Wed Jun 04, 2003 7:46 pm

I think that Lu Meng was the greatest because his strategies on how defeat Guan Yu. He also won many important battles for Wu. It seems only Lu Xun and Zhou Yu were near equal, but all the others just seem not as good. Also I think Lu Meng was also smart to follow his friend ( I forget his name) into Sun Ce's army when he was very poor. Lu Meng didnt inherit a rank or title like alot of people, he had to earn it. I have more information on Lu Meng and his contributions to Wu, but I cant post them all.
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Unread postby Jon » Wed Jun 04, 2003 8:16 pm

I agree with Handsome Zhou and Nads on this one.

While out of the strategists, I like Zhou Yu best, here's the order in which strategist did the most for their dynasty(Wu)-

1.Lu Meng
2.Zhou Yu(I think he could have been better if he lived longer.)
3.Lu Kang
4.Lu Xun(I had a hard time deciding between the father and son, maybe I'm wrong about this)
5.Lu Su(I guess...)
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Unread postby Lance » Wed Jun 04, 2003 8:33 pm

I believe Lu Xun was by far the most talented man in Wu, his son close behind him...in fact, I would rate them as such...
1.Lu Xun
2.Lu Kang
3.Zhang Zhao
4.Lu Meng
5.Lu Su
Lu Meng was very talented...but he certainly isn't the equal of the Lu Xun and Lu Kang...
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Unread postby The Handsome Zhou » Wed Jun 04, 2003 8:42 pm

What did Lu Xun accomplish? He beat Liu Bei at Yi Ling? Yes. Did He come up with the strategy to beat Guan Yu? no. Did he do as much as Lu Meng? no.
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Unread postby Antiochus » Wed Jun 04, 2003 11:05 pm

Lu Meng was capable. But not the most capable. Lu Xun and Zhou Yu's skills were better than his.
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Unread postby The Handsome Zhou » Wed Jun 04, 2003 11:22 pm

Im telling you that Lu Xun was not as skilled as Lu Meng, and Zhou Yu died too early to be a major contributor to the Wu forces. Chi Bi was Zhou Yu's most important victory, eventhough he didnt do all the thinking
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