Why does Sun Quan not get the lovin he should?

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Why does Sun Quan not get the lovin he should?

Unread postby The Handsome Zhou » Wed Jun 04, 2003 2:54 am

To me, Sun Quan made Wu. Sun Jian just gained fame and had alot of wives and kids, Sun Ce was far too reckless and only beat Liu Yong and company, but Sun Quan relly founded Wu. Sun Quan recruited many talanted officers for the Southland and pretty much made Wu a contedable force
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Unread postby unregistered » Wed Jun 04, 2003 3:24 am

Because Sun Quan made some mistakes. He created Wu and he in some ways, destroyed Wu. He was not perfect and not all people are Wuists. :P
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Unread postby The Hero of Chaos » Wed Jun 04, 2003 2:16 pm

Sun Quan was a magnificent general, and ruler. He and Sun Jian created Wu. Sun Quan used his talent wisely and had many good officers such as Lu Meng, Lu Xun, and Gan Ning. He also made strategic alliances with Liu Bei to annihilate Cao Cao at Chi Bi. He also had the richest land, it was good for farming and had the perfect temperture. So overall Sun Quan was the true ruler of Wu.
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Unread postby timon » Wed Jun 04, 2003 2:53 pm

Sun Quan "inherited" Wu ... it was already established after Sun Ce died ... Sun Ce was 16 when he became the head of Wu and he did a great Job consolidating whatever Sun Jian left of the kingdom. When Sun Ce died 9 years later, Sun Quan inherited a Kingdom that was just ripe for the taking.

Sun Quan failed the same reason both Liu Bei and Cao Cao failed ... they weren't able to conquer China.
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Unread postby unregistered » Wed Jun 04, 2003 2:55 pm

perze wrote:Sun Quan "inherited" Wu ... it was already established after Sun Ce died ... Sun Ce was 16 when he became the head of Wu and he did a great Job consolidating whatever Sun Jian left of the kingdom. When Sun Ce died 9 years later, Sun Quan inherited a Kingdom that was just ripe for the taking.

Wrong. Sun Jian left Sun Ce nothing except for a handful of troops and a no big deal reputation. Sun Ce did not established Wu though he laid the foundations. Sun Quan did. :P
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Unread postby The Handsome Zhou » Wed Jun 04, 2003 3:22 pm

Actually Sun Quan gained most of Wus land. Sun Ce was a reckless ruler who almost got himself killed, if not for Cheng Pu. Sun Quan gained WAY more land than Ce and was alot better with internal affairs. Bofu only gained two prefectures.
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Unread postby TheGreatNads » Wed Jun 04, 2003 3:54 pm

perze wrote:Sun Quan "inherited" Wu ... it was already established after Sun Ce died ... Sun Ce was 16 when he became the head of Wu and he did a great Job consolidating whatever Sun Jian left of the kingdom. When Sun Ce died 9 years later, Sun Quan inherited a Kingdom that was just ripe for the taking.

Sun Quan failed the same reason both Liu Bei and Cao Cao failed ... they weren't able to conquer China.


How do you explain Sun Quan getting Shi Xie's lands? Huang Zu's? How about Jingzhou? Fiction? Nope, Sun Quan didn't inherit Wu. I won't lie that Sun Ce with help from Yuan Shu's generals did build Wu, however Sun Quan deserves credit for the large amount of land he captured.
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Unread postby The Handsome Zhou » Wed Jun 04, 2003 7:56 pm

I think Sun Quan deserves most credit, it was noted on a bio I read that he recruited most of Wu's officers.
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Unread postby Antiochus » Wed Jun 04, 2003 11:07 pm

Sun Quan was the best ruler of Wu. Sun Jian was proud of himself and did not want to betray the Han and Sun Ce was to aggresive and unpredictable. So Sun Quan was better than his father and Brother and more intelligent.
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Unread postby Dalton Imperial » Wed Jun 04, 2003 11:40 pm

I'm not sure where you are getting that Sun Quan isn't getting respect. He clearly was the most stable ruler of Wu. Sun Jian didn't do anything besides give Sun Ce the Jade Seal which Sun Ce used to borrow troops from Yuan Shu which allowed him to lay the foundation for what would become Wu. Sun Ce was too reckless; he would have been a better ruler if he and Sun Quan had shared power because they seemed to complement each other really well; Sun Ce would have been the warrior-king who personally led his troops into battle and would have been the powerful speaker who could motivate and maintain the support of the people of Wu while Sun Quan would focus on the non-war concerns of a kingdom and also be a calming force on his brother. Of course, that assumes that neither get jealous of the other, but it would have been an unstoppable combination. But since they weren't together, Sun Quan is a better leader simply because he was more calm and reserved, and not as impatient as Sun Ce.
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