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Guan Yu and Chibi (Red Cliff)

Unread postPosted: Mon May 12, 2003 3:52 pm
by Zhou Zero
What in the world would make Guan Yu let Cao Cao pass when he retreated? Isn't the point of a battle to end the life of the ruler and then assimilate their territory? They would have become many times stronger! They could have spared themselves countless troubles and deaths had Lord Guan not been so falsely honorable. If anything, Guan was a very arrogant man, which is shown when he gets angry at how quickly Huang Zhong becomes a higher-up in the heirarchy. Guan Yu is cool and all, but why be such a fool? He gave his word to Zhuge Liang and Xuande, but betrayed them both! I can't belive the Liu Bei worked on Guan's behalf and spared him. They are some my favorite characters, but Guan needs to pay somehow! Curse him and his "honor" whether it be true or false. Nobody would capture me and my family, and then expect to be allowed to live in a second encounter, no matter how bad their troops look and bring pity into my heart. What do you all think? Maybe it was Heaven's divine will? Oh, one more thing, does anyone really believe that Zhuge Liang called the wind? I think that is part of the whole, "3 parts fiction" part of the novel. But if there was no wind, then how did they light up the ships of Cao Cao? anyway, peace out. Wait, what about Zhuge's war ability? He totally owned every opponent (as far as I've read) but I know he never won a single campaign. What about the one (was it Wuzhang Plains?) where that warrior cost him the battle and Zhuge killed him? Could he have won if that warrior (what's his name?) didn't get hot headed? I don't know much of the circumstances in that battle, fill me in!

Unread postPosted: Mon May 12, 2003 4:00 pm
by Sam
The event where Guan Yu let Cao Cao go never took place historically, and magic doesn't exist in this world. As for Kongming's military ability, he wasn't all that good, but he wasn't all that bad either. There were strategists of the Three Kingdoms who exceeded him in terms of military ability.

Unread postPosted: Mon May 12, 2003 4:05 pm
by Zhou Zero
Well, if Guan Yu wasn't there, what in the world was Zhuge thinking if he knew Cao would take that route? It must be true! He would not have let Cao pass. If Guan wasn't there, who was? Somone must have guarded that pass if he had every other pass guarded by other officers. What you say doesnt make sense. What about Wu Zhang? But to stray back a bit, if Guan wasn't there, then did Cao really take that pass or is that not true either? Did he take a different pass? Peace out.

Unread postPosted: Mon May 12, 2003 4:21 pm
by Sam
Zhou Zero wrote:Well, if Guan Yu wasn't there, what in the world was Zhuge thinking if he knew Cao would take that route? It must be true! He would not have let Cao pass. If Guan wasn't there, who was? Somone must have guarded that pass if he had every other pass guarded by other officers. What you say doesnt make sense.


Kongming didn't know, he sent no one; Kongming's involvement at Chi Bi was none existent.

Zhou Zero wrote:What about Wu Zhang?


What exactly do you want to know about Wu Zhang?

Unread postPosted: Mon May 12, 2003 7:47 pm
by Zhou Zero
First off, I know nothing of Wu Zhang except that Ma Su screwed things up and that Zhuge Liang died becuase of a candle that Wei Yan knocked over. It's a creepy thing that happened to him, read it up. Next, I really though that Zhuge had at least a small part of Chibi.

Unread postPosted: Mon May 12, 2003 8:25 pm
by Sam
Zhou Zero wrote:First off, I know nothing of Wu Zhang except that Ma Su screwed things up and that Zhuge Liang died becuase of a candle that Wei Yan knocked over. It's a creepy thing that happened to him, read it up.


I don't need to "read it up", as I know what happened like the back of my hand. Ma Su was not executed at Wu Zhang; he was executed at Jieting for causing Shu one of its most crucial defeats. The candle event never took place, and Kongming died from fatigue.

Zhou Zero wrote:Next, I really though that Zhuge had at least a small part of Chibi.


No.

Unread postPosted: Mon May 12, 2003 8:26 pm
by TheGreatNads
Zhou Zero wrote:Next, I really though that Zhuge had at least a small part of Chibi.


He had involvement in the Liu/Sun alliance. But he didn't have any in the battle itself.

Unread postPosted: Mon May 12, 2003 11:00 pm
by Pang Shiyuan
TheGreatNads wrote:
Zhou Zero wrote:Next, I really though that Zhuge had at least a small part of Chibi.


He had involvement in the Liu/Sun alliance. But he didn't have any in the battle itself.


Yes. The only mention Zhuge had at Chibi in SGZ was when he managed to convince Sun Quan to resist Cao's threat of surrender and to ally with Liu Bei and Qi.

Strangely enough, Zhuge DID mention to Sun that Liu Bei was a hero of the time, but didn't go as far as to compare Sun with Liu in SGYY. :lol:

Unread postPosted: Mon May 12, 2003 11:27 pm
by Antiochus
I thought that he his the one who create the plan to burn Cao Cao fleet

Unread postPosted: Mon May 12, 2003 11:29 pm
by TheGreatNads
Jai Xu wrote:I thought that he his the one who create the plan to burn Cao Cao fleet


Not in SGZ. It was Huang Gai who came up with the idea of burning Cao Cao's fleet.