Zhuge Liang's Wei campaigns

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Zhuge Liang's Wei campaigns

Unread postby grand master of san guo » Sun Apr 13, 2003 2:49 am

hey did 6 campaing to qi mt. how come he didnt even take the freaking place out? i thought his like the master of stargeist in san guo. :?
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Unread postby TheGreatNads » Sun Apr 13, 2003 3:54 am

He never made very good strategies, didn't know how to use his talented offiers, supply problems....
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Unread postby Lady Zhuge » Sun Apr 13, 2003 4:47 am

TheGreatNads wrote:He never made very good strategies, didn't know how to use his talented offiers, supply problems....


Don't say never. And how does one moron's failure constitute saying that he didn't know how to use his talented officers? That's digging yourself a hole.
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Unread postby TheGreatNads » Sun Apr 13, 2003 4:49 am

Lady Zhuge wrote:Don't say never. That's digging yourself a hole.


I never have thought highly of Zhuge Liang's basic strategies.
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Unread postby Lady Zhuge » Sun Apr 13, 2003 4:50 am

TheGreatNads wrote:
Lady Zhuge wrote:Don't say never. That's digging yourself a hole.


I never have thought highly of Zhuge Liang's basic strategies.


Gee, we didn't notice that. :roll:
And how does one moron in Ma Su's failure to follow directions constitute your generally false statement of Zhuge Liang not knowing how to use his talented officers?
Last edited by Lady Zhuge on Sun Apr 13, 2003 4:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby Cao Ren » Sun Apr 13, 2003 4:50 am

i really didn't see too many talented officers except for zhang ni and zhang yi, I dont see how his officers affect him losing when hes calling the shots, he had the command
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Unread postby Lady Zhuge » Sun Apr 13, 2003 4:58 am

Cao Ren wrote:i really didn't see too many talented officers except for zhang ni and zhang yi, I dont see how his officers affect him losing when hes calling the shots, he had the command


If the commander gives commands and the officer decides not to follow it, then that officer obviously affects the success of the campaign.
Case in point: Ma Su at Jieting. He disobeyed Zhuge Liang's strategic plans and lost Jieting.
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Unread postby TheGreatNads » Sun Apr 13, 2003 5:07 am

Lady Zhuge wrote:And how does one moron in Ma Su's failure to follow directions constitute your generally false statement of Zhuge Liang not knowing how to use his talented officers?


Because of he didn't use Wei Yan and Wang Ping as much as he should have. On his campaigns he would give himself(With the exception of Jie Ting) all responsibility and fail. But when things looked dangerous he let his generals do all the work while he hides in his base.

Cao Ren wrote:i really didn't see too many talented officers except for zhang ni and zhang yi,


What? There is Wang Ping, and of course WEI YAN!

Lady Zhuge wrote:If the commander gives commands and the officer decides not to follow it, then that officer obviously affects the success of the campaign.
Case in point: Ma Su at Jieting. He disobeyed Zhuge Liang's strategic plans and lost Jieting.


Making an inexperienced general vanguard of the army, rather than using your experienced officers, after being told by your former lord not to trust that officer and after other officers disagree with your decision is at the very least a bad idea.
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Unread postby CaTigeReptile » Sun Apr 13, 2003 5:09 am

Lady Zhuge, Zhuge Liang seemed to ignore Wei Yan. I've heard Wei Yan had many talents and good ideas that Zhuge Liang was almost spiteful of. Now, I myself don't know much about Shu's officers at any time in order to really say who was talented or not, but if Zhuge Liang was really trying to attack Wei in his nothern campaigns (which he really wasn't), he would have probably used his more offensively-based officers in a more offensively-based strategy: For instance, if he really was attacking, he would not have spent all of his time planning a successful retreat. And he would have planned more flexibly so that when and if he died, it would not mean the collapse of Shu: His plans for the Northern Campaigns, which were to make Wei think Shu was actually measureably strong, had almost no margin for error. Because of this, when he died, Jiang Wei (who I have a strong dislike for because I think he's a scared-because-of-loss-turn-traitor) could not successfully continue the Northern Campaigns, or defending Shu, for that matter, simply because he did not have Zhuge Liang's exact mind. That could have been planned better.

Ha, I forgot to say my trademark when it comes to the Northern Campaigns and Ma Su: Zhuge Liang should have known Ma Su, especially after his officers warned him, could never go against Zhang He. I mean, Zhang He was rather infamous as a general fighting against Shu. Zhuge Liang had dealt with him before and knew that Zhang He was no loser. But he puts Ma Su to protect the area Zhang He will attack. There's something not brilliant there.
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Unread postby TheGreatNads » Sun Apr 13, 2003 5:14 am

CaTigeReptile wrote:(which he really wasn't),


I disagree

CaTigeReptile wrote:he would have probably used his more offensively-based officers in a more offensively-based strategy: For instance, if he really was attacking, he would not have spent all of his time planning a successful retreat.


How do you know he spent all of his time planning a sucessful retreat?
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