Zhuge Liang overrated

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Re: Zhuge Liang overrated

Unread postby Vincinerate » Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:18 am

Overrated as a field commander partly due to LGZ's depiction especially in Chibi & the Northern Campaigns.
But I think he still deserve all the respect for his political efforts & how he carried Shu. I was more concerned on his foresight on choosing field commanders though - Ma Su & Jiang Wei.
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Re: Zhuge Liang overrated

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:00 pm

Historically, Jiang Wei wasn't Zhuge Liang's pick and only became CiC during Fei Yi's time.

I do wonder if Liang could have done something to cultivate a successor as miliatry commander rather then leave both civil and army affairs to Jiang Wan.
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Re: Zhuge Liang overrated

Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:47 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:Historically, Jiang Wei wasn't Zhuge Liang's pick and only became CiC during Fei Yi's time.

I do wonder if Liang could have done something to cultivate a successor as miliatry commander rather then leave both civil and army affairs to Jiang Wan.


Well most likely Zhuge Liang's obsession with doing so much work himself left him with little time to cultivate a proper successor. I figure he knew that Jiang Wan would take over his responsibilities afterwards however he didn't seem to even consider who would lead the military afterwards. Perhaps he assumed that Wei Yan would. :lol: :P
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Re: Zhuge Liang overrated

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:35 pm

I think Zhuge Liang's plan was for Jiang Wan to take control of the army, that seems to have been his succession plan but I wonder if he could have done better to cultivate a more miliatry figure.
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Re: Zhuge Liang overrated

Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:51 pm

So Jiang Wan was suppose to be both political and military leader, that didn't work out extremely well when Zhuge Liang did it. However Jiang Wan did a fine job when he did take over at least politically.
Zhuge Liang didn't seem to plan much for after his death (military wise) as shown by Shu-Han basically turtling for years and years afterwards. (not a bad idea)
Then again they just lost Wei Yan who was their best general. Perhaps they wanted time to try to cultivate a replacement, which must have been difficult as so many ranking military officers were gone by this time. The next generation had taken over by this time and Zhuge Liang didn't seem to try to raise new officers much when it comes to the military.
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Re: Zhuge Liang overrated

Unread postby Hussam » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:07 am

I know it's been almost a year since I last posted here but I just want to clear two points.
1. No Dong Zhou you didn't scare me nor have I been hurt. Why would I ?
2. I said earlier that I wished there had been a Liu Bei in Syria but now I wish there was a Yuan Shao, no even a Gongsun Zan would make it.
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و إن ما عطيوني ياكي يا جبال العالي لهدا
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Re: Zhuge Liang overrated

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:26 pm

Welcome back Hussam

1) Some people get put off and for the latter, your living in a country in civil war.

2) Possibly not Gongsun Zan, he was a tyrant but I can understand just wanting anyone who might be able to unify things.
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Re: Zhuge Liang overrated

Unread postby Hussam » Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:12 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:Welcome back Hussam

1) Some people get put off and for the latter, your living in a country in civil war.

2) Possibly not Gongsun Zan, he was a tyrant but I can understand just wanting anyone who might be able to unify things.


Thank you, it's great to be back.

1. I thought "hurt" was in the emotional context rather than physical. But thank you for your concern, I highly appreciate it.

2. Exactly, I just don't see a true leading figure who can put an end to this chaos.
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Re: Zhuge Liang overrated

Unread postby Hussam » Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:55 pm

I was going through some of my older posts. Particularly where I was talking about Zhang Yu and Divination and I found myself to be really naive there. I really just had to say that. The best word to describe it would be ignorance. :oops:
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Re: Zhuge Liang overrated

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:16 pm

Never go through one's old posts, it is always embarrassing :wink: I think people do find it difficult to quite know how to handle figures that were mystics/diviners and you made your points well with friendliness
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