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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:08 pm
by Sun Fin
Does anyone know about the differences between men's and women's clothing for the period?

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:24 am
by DragonAtma
All too often I tried to look up info on Han Fu on wikipedia, only for the page top redirect to hanfu (Chinese clothing). Therefore, I can provide some examples of Eastern Han clothing so you can compare the differences -- but instead of half male, half female, most of them are females, so it's a bit hard to do so (sorry).

I should also add that clothing may vary a bit from one area to another for the same reason you're much more likely to see people wear cowboy hats in Texas than in New York.

From an Eastern Han tomb:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dahuting_tomb_mural_detail_of_women_wearing_hanfu,_Eastern_Han_period.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dahuting_Tomb_mural_of_women_dressed_in_Hanfu,_Eastern_Han_Dynasty_(crop2).jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dahuting_Tomb_mural_of_women_dressed_in_Hanfu,_Eastern_Han_Dynasty_(crop1).jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mural_Painting_of_a_Banquet_Scene_from_the_Han_Dynasty_Tomb_of_Ta-hu-t%27ing.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dahuting_mural,_Eastern_Han_Dynasty.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dahuting_tomb_mural_showing_hanfu_dress,_Eastern_Han_Dynasty.jpg

Terracotta:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:China.Terracotta_statues007.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nswag,_dinastia_han,figurina_dipinta_di_danzatrice.JPG
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Shanghai_Museum_2006_17-15.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Woman_with_a_mirror,_China,_unearthed_at_Songjialin,_Pixian,_Sichuan,_Eastern_Han_dynasty,_25-220_AD,_ceramic_-_Sichuan_Provincial_Museum_-_Chengdu,_China_-_DSC04768.jpg

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:07 am
by Sun Fin
Thank you Dragon! Really helpful as ever :D

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:12 am
by DragonAtma
Question time! Two (okay, three) questions, actually.

(1) In RoTK2, there's an officer named Liang Gang; in scenario 1 he serves Kong Rong, and in scenario 2 he serves Yuan Shao (he's gone for scenarios 3-6). A search of KMA only shows one Liang Gang (who is probably a different Liang Gang, seeing as he only served Yuan Shu). Any idea who he is? Or did Koei screw up and actually mean the Liang Gang who served Yuan Shu?

(2a) When Liu Bei invaded Liu Zhang's lands (212-214), it's recorded that one of Liu Zhang's officers was Liu Gui. Any chance he's related to Liu Zhang? Pang Xi is recorded as bringing Liu Fan and Liu Dan's children back to Liu Yan in 194 (Liu Yan and his two eldest sons died in 194, yet it's recorded that they were brought back between Liu Yan's death and his sons' deaths), so they'd certainly be old enough.

(2b) While we're at it, do we know anything about Liu Dan and Liu Fan's sons? They were Liu Zhang's nephews (and one of them was heir presumptive until Liu Dan and Liu Fan's deaths), so presumably they had fairly important posts.

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:03 am
by capnnerefir
DragonAtma wrote:(1) In RoTK2, there's an officer named Liang Gang; in scenario 1 he serves Kong Rong, and in scenario 2 he serves Yuan Shao (he's gone for scenarios 3-6). A search of KMA only shows one Liang Gang (who is probably a different Liang Gang, seeing as he only served Yuan Shu). Any idea who he is? Or did Koei screw up and actually mean the Liang Gang who served Yuan Shu?


Yuan Shu's Liang Gang is the only one.

DragonAtma wrote:(2a) When Liu Bei invaded Liu Zhang's lands (212-214), it's recorded that one of Liu Zhang's officers was Liu Gui. Any chance he's related to Liu Zhang? Pang Xi is recorded as bringing Liu Fan and Liu Dan's children back to Liu Yan in 194 (Liu Yan and his two eldest sons died in 194, yet it's recorded that they were brought back between Liu Yan's death and his sons' deaths), so they'd certainly be old enough.


There is nothing to suggest that Liu Gui was related to Liu Zhang. Liu was a very common surname; there were tons of unrelated Lius all over the place.

DragonAtma wrote:(2b) While we're at it, do we know anything about Liu Dan and Liu Fan's sons? They were Liu Zhang's nephews (and one of them was heir presumptive until Liu Dan and Liu Fan's deaths), so presumably they had fairly important posts.

Nothing is recorded about their children. There is no mention of their names or of them holding any particular positions of importance.

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:24 am
by Civic
Is there any explanation around how the provinces, commandaries, etc. were named?

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:22 pm
by Fornadan
There is no single explanation that fit all, but generally

provinces names are taken from classic texts like the Tribute of Yu which divide China into a number of schematic regions

commandery names are mixture of old traditional names and new descriptive creations

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:57 am
by DragonAtma
Sometimes they get renamed because of the naming taboo. In 313, for example, Sima Ye became emperor; as a result, Jianye (former capital of Wu) was promptly renamed Jiankang.

They may also get 'renamed' due to cities being sacked and later rebuilt. Qin's capital Xianyang was razed by Xiang Yu in 206, but Liu Bang built his first capital, Changan in 202 BC in virtually the same place; Changan was devastated in 907 AD, but a new city, Xi'an was later built in almost the same place.

For reference, the city sprawl of 2017's Xi'an (capital of Shaanxi province) includes the former locations of XIanyang and Chang'an.

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:43 pm
by Jebusrocks
Is there a place that has a list of all english sources for the three kingdoms? I've noticed several members on here posting translated works I've never had a chance to read because i never saw them in english! Just started reading Crespigny's stuff again and getting myself to fall in love with the three kingdoms all over again! If not can we create a topic which compiles all english sources (both free and paid)?

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:59 pm
by Sun Fin
As far as I'm aware the best list is this one I compiled.

Make sure you read the last two pages though as Wayward posted in a ton more links that I've not edited in. I also linked to plunged wiki's list of sources which contain some that I haven't listed.