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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:51 am
by greencactaur
Interesting to see everyone's thoughts on this. How often did politicians get involved in successor wars? It seems a lot of the major officials tended to have their opinion heard. I doubt they would ask minor officials.

Also how would you compare the current culture to the 3k era? I mainly am interested in how modern world culture, and specifically modern Chinese culture compare to 3k era.

ivolga wrote:Were Guo Tu and Guo Jia relatives? As far as I know, they both are from Yinchuan, so they probably belonged to the same clan. But are their exact family relations mentioned somewhere?


I don't think they were related. Wikipedia however has a small excerpt about a discussion between the two "Guo Jia once travelled to Hebei to meet Yuan Shao, an influential warlord who controlled most of northern China at the time. He later told Yuan Shao's advisors Xin Ping and Guo Tu, "An intelligent advisor should be prudent when he chooses which lord he wishes to serve so that his lord will heed every piece of advice he gives. The advisor can then establish his reputation. Lord Yuan (Yuan Shao) wishes to mimic the Duke of Zhou by recruiting men of talent to serve under him but he does not know how to tap into their abilities. He focuses too much on unnecessary details and neglects the main points; he likes to listen to many ideas but is indecisive. It is difficult for him to save the Empire from its troubles and achieve hegemony over the various warlords!" Guo Jia then left Yuan Shao.[Sanguozhi 2]"
So it seems like they had some form of relation

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:16 am
by Sun Fin
What do we know about Ding Yuan? Like I'm presuming he was summoned to the court as a frontier general by He Jin to help get rid of the eunuchs? But what frontier did he fight on and what experience did he have?

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:52 pm
by Dong Zhou
greencactaur wrote:Interesting to see everyone's thoughts on this. How often did politicians get involved in successor wars? It seems a lot of the major officials tended to have their opinion heard. I doubt they would ask minor officials.


If there is splits in the family, they will look for supporters for planning and to add a sense of legitimacy among senior advisers. I note that Pi/Zhi, the Sun clan, Yuan family it tended to be court figures rather then geerals

So it seems like they had some form of relation


Knowing each other is different from being related

Sun Fin wrote:What do we know about Ding Yuan? Like I'm presuming he was summoned to the court as a frontier general by He Jin to help get rid of the eunuchs? But what frontier did he fight on and what experience did he have?


Other then he burnt Mengjin for He Jin as a show of strength to eunuchs, think Lu Bu's sgz and first annotation covers everything we know

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:51 pm
by greencactaur
By relation i meant friendship, but not actually related haha, sorry for not specifying

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:03 pm
by Sun Fin
How did people greet each other during this period? As in is there an equivalent of a firm British hand shake?

Also within the military was there a salute equivalent? I saw in red cliff people bowing down to the commander in chief, would that be the case for all soldier towards their superiors? How would a superior acknowledge there subordinate's gesture?

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:25 pm
by Xu Yuan
In preparation for study to "get into the mind" of Confucius for an Honors Senior Seminar I have began to read and analyze the Five Classics. I came across in one of the older translations by that prolific translator James Legge of the late 1800's, a mention of a "Luh Ke" in the given analysis of one of the poems in the Book of Odes/Classic of Poetry, Legge specifically mentions this figure as coming from the Three Kingdoms Era. I recognized the "Luh" 陸 character as being the family name of the Lu Clan of Wu (Lu Xun, Lu Kang), but when I looked for Lu Ke or Lu Ge, I came up blank. Is there any note to who this Luh Ke person may be?

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:46 pm
by DragonAtma
There was a Lu Kai, who was Lu Xun's nephew; could that be who you mean?

If not, you may have to give us more details on what they said about this "Luh Ke".

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:16 pm
by Xu Yuan
DragonAtma wrote:There was a Lu Kai, who was Lu Xun's nephew; could that be who you mean?

If not, you may have to give us more details on what they said about this "Luh Ke".


Ah sorry about that. According to the Legge's notes, Luh Ke was born in 260 and died in 303 and lived in Wu, which means he was only 20 at the Fall of Wu. He wrote a treatise entitled "On the Plants, Trees, Birds, Animals, and Fishes in ?Mao's? (They use the name "Maou" which I assume Pinyin has as Mao) Book (Dealing with the Classic of Poetry); in Two Chapters". He apparently even has a recorded style name, but it's fully in Chinese with no English equivalent given.

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:48 pm
by Jolt
MrFunTimes wrote:How were horses gathered for the use of cavalry? Were they just bought from private horse owners or did the government have programs to raise their own?


The breeding of horses for official use, whether for the Imperial court or for war, was under the supervision of the Minister Coachman, one of the Nine Excellencies.

Since the former Han, Han authorities had established massive horse breeding "parks" in the sparsely colonized Northwestern Liang province, the most important of which, according to de Crespigny, was Liuma park, located in Hanyang commandery (Later called Tianshui). There were also a great many horse parks in Beidi commandery. Eventually, as the Liang province came under considerable distress during the last few decades of the Han, Han authorities shifted much of the infrastructure down South to Southern Yi province, away from the chaos in Liang.

According to a Ming dynasty document on the matter, they eventually relocated to Yizhou commandery, hosting Wanqian park and Jianwei commandery, hosting Hanping park.

The document goes on to explain that those Yi province parks were also used by Wei, Jin and Sui dynasties.

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:28 am
by Zyzyfer
Xu Yuan wrote:
DragonAtma wrote:There was a Lu Kai, who was Lu Xun's nephew; could that be who you mean?

If not, you may have to give us more details on what they said about this "Luh Ke".


Ah sorry about that. According to the Legge's notes, Luh Ke was born in 260 and died in 303 and lived in Wu, which means he was only 20 at the Fall of Wu. He wrote a treatise entitled "On the Plants, Trees, Birds, Animals, and Fishes in ?Mao's? (They use the name "Maou" which I assume Pinyin has as Mao) Book (Dealing with the Classic of Poetry); in Two Chapters". He apparently even has a recorded style name, but it's fully in Chinese with no English equivalent given.


Did a bit of googling and my best guess is maybe it is Lu Ji a son of Lu Kang. His name is sometimes romanized as Lu Chi apparently. My original lead based on the birth and death dates and actual information lining up was this.

That said, I'm going to poke around a bit more, the comment about only being 20 when Wu fell stands out as familiar based on my armchair research into someone recently...(although lately I have been reading about Liu clan members...)