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Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:44 am
by zhang wen yuan
I just read Zhang Liao's SGZ biography at konming.net.

I think there is a mistake. I think Ta Dun is killed in the battle and not executed after the battle.

Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:01 pm
by Mithel
In what chapter does Sun Ce meet his end?

Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 1:28 am
by didier
With a bittersweet ending in Ch 29, Sun Ce dies:

So saying Sun Ce handed his seal to Sun Quan, saying, "For manipulating the might of Wu so as to make it the deciding force among the factions and then obtaining the whole empire, you are not so suited as I. But in encouraging the wise and confiding in the able and getting the best out of everyone for the preservation of this land, I should not succeed as you will. Remember with what toil and labor your father and I have won what we possess, and take good care thereof."

Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 1:39 am
by James
Question from the ol’ mailbox:

Does Cao Cao have a daughter? What's her name?

I do seem to recall him having daughters, but I also recal absolutely no specific details about them. Do we have any information at all in regard to this question? I would certainly be surprised to see a name, but perhaps a quantity…

Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 1:56 am
by Kuan P'ing
Didn't one of his daughters marry Xiahou Mou?

Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:05 am
by Lady Wu
He's got a bunch of daughters, two of which were married to Emperor Xian, and another one, as Kuan P'ing said, to Xiahou Mao. None of their names were recorded.

The only Cao women whose names I know of are Cao Zhi's two daughters that died in infancy. He wrote poems of them (that's how we know their names). One is Xingnü and the other is Jin-something; have to go home and check. :oops:

Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:26 am
by Kong Wen
TREE: http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/giles/text/caoxiahou.txt

Cao Jie married Emperor Xian.
Cao Qinghe married Xiahou Mao.

I can't remember exactly where I got those names now, but all of my information for that tree came from SGZ/SGYY.

Given that Lady Wu says their names weren't recorded, chances are I got those names either from SGYY, or from someone who dug them out of some kind of folktale/opera/etc.

Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:13 pm
by Lady Wu
I'll have to look up on the Cao Jie.

As for Xiahou Mao's wife, she was the Princess of Qinghe. Qinghe is a place name and her given fief. I haven't seen her personal name.

Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:18 pm
by Kong Wen
Lady Wu wrote:As for Xiahou Mao's wife, she was the Princess of Qinghe. Qinghe is a place name and her given fief. I haven't seen her personal name.

I have no doubt it was recorded that way somewhere. That kind of thing tends to stand in for a personal name in certain circumstances (e.g. Liu Yuzhou), and I think the absense of a recorded personal name works for me. :)

Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 7:59 pm
by James
Thanks M’lady Wu and Mr. Wen. What poem(s) did Cao Zhi write about his daughters in?

[Edit: Mr. Kong!]