Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Gray Riders » Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:46 pm

Thanks for your replies, DaoLunOfShiji and Li_Shengsun!
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby jiuyangda » Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:30 pm

Wikipedia does not understand the term "great general." 大將

Great means important. 大:小之對。
General means officer. 將:帥也。

Chunyu Qiong was called an "important officer" or "high-ranking officer."

大將, 重帥也。
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Jordan » Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:47 am

jiuyangda wrote:Wikipedia does not understand the term "great general." 大將

Great means important. 大:小之對。
General means officer. 將:帥也。

Chunyu Qiong was called an "important officer" or "high-ranking officer."

大將, 重帥也。


This makes perfect sense, if it was merely a misunderstanding of the rank dajiangjun or something.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Gray Riders » Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:29 pm

Thanks for your post, jiuyangda. Part of the reason I was trying to find the source was to see if the phrase was being used in that way.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby jiuyangda » Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:50 pm

It's from Xian-di Qiju zhu 獻帝起居注, annotated to Wu-di ji 武帝紀, first chapter of the San Guo zhi 三國志.

Full text
公上言「大將軍鄴侯袁紹前與冀州牧韓馥立故大司馬劉虞,刻作金璽,遣故任長畢瑜詣虞,為說命錄之數。又紹與臣書云:『可都鄄城,當有所立。』擅鑄金銀印,孝廉計吏,皆往詣紹。從弟濟陰太守敘與紹書云:『今海內喪敗,天意實在我家,神應有徵,當在尊兄。南兄臣下欲使即位,南兄言,以年則北兄長,以位則北兄重。便欲送璽,會曹操斷道。』紹宗族累世受國重恩,而凶逆無道,乃至于此。輒勒兵馬,與戰官渡,乘聖朝之威,得斬紹大將淳于瓊等八人首,遂大破潰。紹與子譚輕身迸走。凡斬首七萬餘級,輜重財物巨億。」


Relevant sentence:

得斬紹大將淳于瓊等八人首

"Captured and beheaded [Yuan] Shao's chief officers Chunyu Qiong and others of eight heads"
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby greencactaur » Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:30 pm

Did Cao Cao or any of the lords ever actually murder someone in a drunken outburst? I believe he kills a poet during Chi bi for criticizing his poem, but i'm fairly sure this is fictional?
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:27 am

greencactaur wrote:Did Cao Cao or any of the lords ever actually murder someone in a drunken outburst? I believe he kills a poet during Chi bi for criticizing his poem, but i'm fairly sure this is fictional?


Yes, Liu Fu died of natural causes while in command in Yang.

Sun Quan had to order "don't execute while drunk" but I can't think of any execution while drunk
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby DaoLunOfShiji » Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:08 pm

Ling Tong killed a drunk Chen Qin, does that count? Though Chen died of his wounds several days after the attack...

Before then, Tǒng with Commander Chén Qín met and drank liquor; [Chén] Qín was stalwart and brave but followed impulses, because he was the Commander he performed the libations, boarding the carriage and sitting alone, promoting and penalizing not by proper regulation. Tǒng resented this humiliation, and confronted him but was ignored. [Chén] Qín was furious and cursed Tǒng, and even his father [Líng] Cāo, Tǒng shed tears and did not answer, and everyone therefore left and went out. [Chén] Qín while drunk was vicious and confrontational, and also on the road continued insulting Tǒng. Tǒng could not bear it, drew his blade and cut [Chén] Qín, who after several days died.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby MasterG0819 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:22 am

Not sure if this had been asked? Is there any evidence that the Sun family was descended from Sun Tzu?
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Fornadan » Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:16 am

None. the family is entirely unknown before Sun JIan. SGZ does not even record the name of Sun Jian's father.
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