Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:07 am

Sanji Himura wrote:I likely got most of this wrong according to history, but I felt like I should add to the conversation.


It is a well argued point and a welcome addition to the debate don't worry, I wouldn't worry about posting if might be wrong in a debate, you might be right or add another angle and if wrong then well you may not be the only one to learn from the explanation that comes after.

Your right that likely when camp vs camp ala Wuzhang then it wasn't worth the siege equipment expense, time and manpower . I might lean towards possibly on this one becuase Zhuge Liang dug in for the long term but you could well be right that as was an encampment, not worth it.

What doesn't help is that, in a lot of areas, historians of the times seem to have had an attitude of assuming people would know common things of the time so details like how rituals were done and how often (for example) get left out. So on this, it is trying to fill in the holes and working out "would this be the type of camapign for siege equipment"
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Sun Fin » Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:39 am

And Chinese chroniclers of the period generally seem to find military history itself either distasteful or boring as compared to European history we have very few accounts of how battles were actually fought.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Sun Fin » Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:22 pm

Still doing my RoTK read through and noticed that when ZGL goes on his first Northern expedition he leaves Xiang Chong as the CIC at the capital in his absence. His a name I recognise from multiple Koei games but I know nothing about him or why he would be given such a position of authority in the novel. Does anyone else know more?
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:46 pm

From his SGZ
Xiang Chong, the son of Xiang Lang’s elder brother, was a General of the Standard in Liu Bei’s time. During the great defeat at Zigui, Xiang Chong’s camp was noted for having suffered far fewer losses than everybody else’s. In the first year of Jianxing (AD 223) he was made Marquis of Duting, and afterwards, Chief Inspector of the Center, commanding the Imperial Guard. Right before Zhuge Liang’s departure to the north, he memorialized to the Latter Ruler.

“General Xiang Chong is a man of well-balanced temperament, versed in military matters, to whom, after testing him, the late Emperor applied the epithet 'capable'. The consensus of opinion is that Xiang Chong should be Grand Commander. My advice is to consult him in all military matters, great or small, whereby your military forces will yield their maximum, each one being employed to the best advantage.”

He was then promoted to Commandant of the Center Army. In the 3rd year of Yanxi (AD 240), he was killed during a campaign against the barbarians of the Hanjia area.


Though speech is from the novel
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Sun Fin » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:03 pm

Damn Shu's awful history department. Sounds like an interesting figure but once again we have no background knowledge. I couldn't even find an article about him in RDC's tome. Maybe I'm just being dense though?
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby DaoLunOfShiji » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:03 pm

He isn't in there, but most Three Kingdoms figures are not. The work generally stops at 220, and you'd rarely see mention of a post Jian'an era figure. Chong is another victim of Shu being terrible. Someone that seems so interesting and yet information on them is scarce. He joins Liu Yin, Luo Xian and Huo Yi in the club of people that are really interesting, yet we barely have any information on them because Shu.

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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby greencactaur » Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:31 pm

What were the military posts of Pang Tong, Fa Zheng, and Zhuge Liang during the Yi invasion? I believe in the novel he's has a low minister post, but After meeting Zhang Fei he is reevaluated by Liu Bei. That's probably ficitonal, but how did it really happen?
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Sun Fin » Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:29 am

DaoLunOfShiji wrote:He isn't in there, but most Three Kingdoms figures are not. The work generally stops at 220, and you'd rarely see mention of a post Jian'an era figure. Chong is another victim of Shu being terrible. Someone that seems so interesting and yet information on them is scarce. He joins Liu Yin, Luo Xian and Huo Yi in the club of people that are really interesting, yet we barely have any information on them because Shu.

In other news, life is terrible and nothing you accomplish will be remembered.


Let's hope that we might get A Biographical Dictionary of the Period of Division someday. I'm feeling moderately more optimistic now we're getting the Cambridge history book.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:36 pm

greencactaur wrote:What were the military posts of Pang Tong, Fa Zheng, and Zhuge Liang during the Yi invasion? I believe in the novel he's has a low minister post, but After meeting Zhang Fei he is reevaluated by Liu Bei. That's probably ficitonal, but how did it really happen?


Military Master Internal Cadet-General, didn't hold formal miliatry rank for Liu Bei (for Liu Zhang was Military Commentator Colonel), Advisor General of the Gentlemen of the Household respectively.

Pang Tong simply did a awful job and was sacked till Zhuge Liang and Lu Su argued he simply was ill-suited to so small a post and should be given a bigger job. To be the honest the novel change makes Pang Tong seem immoral and a jerk for me for messing around with people's lives becuase he was bored
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby greencactaur » Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:55 pm

That's interesting to hear about Pang Tong doing an awful job as a minor official. My question is how would you rate him after being acknowledged by Liu Bei? To be honest its great he had several plans and helped orchestrate the yi invasion, but I feel the combined efforts of Fa Zheng, Zhang Song, and Liu bei's military expertise were the major factors for the successful conquest.
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