Page 1092 of 1109

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:02 pm
by Dong Zhou
greencactaur wrote:Thanks for the further information dong much obliged. It makes me wonder however how popular/loved was Liu Bei by this point in time? I feel like most of his popularity came, he conquered Yi. I'm sure as a general he was quite renonwn, but in terms of people support what was it like?


Enough that it was a factor in other warlords decisions. Cao Cao's camp was first I think to raise that he was a popular figure and this makes him a problem (outside of Liu Bei's lands, Tao Qian and Lu Bu's camp both noted it within Xu). He could draw people to him and it was clearly felt if a faction was seen as mistreating Liu Bei, it would cost support among gentry, beyond that I'm not sure how far the popularity stretched

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:33 pm
by greencactaur
Oh I see how interesting. Thanks for the information :)

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:26 pm
by Lord Yang Jiahua
Who exterminated Liu Yuan's clan?

Is it all in the Book of Jin? Been very interested to see if the narrative has any difference from ones i've read on the Period of Disunion. (220-580)

Is the same Wang Jun fighting Liu Yuan's armies the same Wang Jun that defeated the Southland along with Du Yu?

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:39 pm
by DaoLunOfShiji
In short, Shi Hu captured and slaughtered Liu Yuan's family.
The fate of the Han Zhao royalty from the ZZTJ

19. In autumn, the eighth month, Liu Yin of Zhao led several tens of thousands of Zhao soldiers from Shanggui to march towards Chang'an. The Rong tribes and the Xia people (ethnic Han) of the commandaries of Longdong, Wudu, Anding, Xinping, Beidi, Fufeng, and Shiping all raised troops to support him. Liu Yin's army marched to Zhongqiao. Shi Sheng closed the gates of Chang'an to mount a defense, while Shi Hu led twenty thousand cavalry to reinforce him.

In the ninth month, Shi Hu greatly routed the Zhao soldiers at Yiqu. Liu Yin fled back to Shanggui. Shi Hu pressed his victory and pursued the Zhao army, leaving corpses along the road for a thousand li. Then Shanggui also fell, and Shi Hu captured Liu Xi, Liu Yin, and more than three thousand other Zhao princes, nobles, ministers, commanders, and other such officials. He killed them all.

Shi Hu forced all of the remaining Zhao civil and military officials, all the refugees west of the passes, and more than nine thousand members of the great families of Qinzhou and Yongzhou to relocate east to Xiangguo. He also buried alive more than five thousand of the Chuge Xiongnu of the Five Commandaries at Luoyang. Shi Hu advanced and attacked the Jimuqie Qiang tribe at Hexi, and he defeated them, taking captive tens of thousands of them. The regions of Qin and Long were thus all pacified by Later Zhao.

The Di king Pu Hong and the Qiang chieftain Yao Yizhong both surrendered to Shi Hu as well. Shi Hu petitioned to have Pu Hong appointed as Chief of military affairs of the Six Tribes, and Yao Yizhong appointed as Commander of the Left of the Six Tribes. He forced a hundred and fifty thousand tribes of the Di and Qiang to relocate to Sizhou and Jizhou.



As for the Wang Jun's, those are two separate Wang Jun's. The one who participated in the War of the Eight Princes and the war against Liu Yuan is 王浚, while the one of Wu conquest fame is 王濬.

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:15 am
by greencactaur
I have a question about Huang Zhong. When it says he killed Xiahou Yuan, does that mean he physically killed him or was it his unit that did it? I wouldn't be to surprised if there were soldiers who killed an officer, but their superior took credit for it.

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:40 am
by Dong Zhou
greencactaur wrote:I have a question about Huang Zhong. When it says he killed Xiahou Yuan, does that mean he physically killed him or was it his unit that did it? I wouldn't be to surprised if there were soldiers who killed an officer, but their superior took credit for it.


Unit, usually when an officer was killed in the melee of combat among soldiers then the commander was given credit as you noted.

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:46 am
by SaotomeGenma
First of all, I am new here but I am a long time lurker, hello everyone.

Anyway, I would like to talk and ask questions about Gao Shun cause I don't think he got the recognition for what he did in history

- Was he the best general in Lu Bu's army as I interpret it from his achievements?
- And what rank does he compared to other generals - his troops were often loaned to other generals like Wei Xu, right? so he was a low rank general and Wei Xu, Huo Cheng, Song Xian & Cao Xiu were higher? Was he above or below or equal to Zhang Liao in rank?
- Did Cao Cao want to recruit him? I think I read somewhere Cao Cao said "anything to say" was for Gao Shun to say he yield and Cao Cao would have welcomed him to his rank.
- Why would he be so loyal when Lu Bu treated him badly? Is he one of the most loyal person in SGZ ?

I came to appreciate him more cause of the Manhwa "Ravage of Time" where he was a bad ass elite unit leader but his death was changed (died fighting to the end against Cao Chun in White Gate tower) and I think his biography was already bad ass enough so I want to know more and want more people to appreciate this blindly loyal guy.

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:06 am
by Dong Zhou
Welcome to the forum SaotomeGenma, glad you took the plunge

Gao Shun, among the 3k history community is a popular figure for his advice, honesty and skill. Unfortunately Gao Shun doesn't have an SGZ and so there is limited information about him and the structure of Lu Bu's ranks

1) Quite possibly, he seems the best with the records we have and he clearly shone under Lu Bu

2) Unknown. I wouldn't say low ranked, he was the man given charge against Liu Bei, he had the shock troops, he was the planned joint-commander to hold Lu Bu's city. He had less favour then Wei Xu, hard to know with the others as their military ranks are unclear

3) I think that comes from the novel.

4) I'm not sure I would put him in the most loyal list. While the neglect at times would have provided a reason to defect, he still had the elite troops and given miliatry tasks that he might not get under a new commander, Lu Bu was lenient and kind to his subordinates and was able to accept Gao Shun criticizing him, positions Gao Shun is not guaranteed under others. Lu Bu clearly had some charisma and it is hard to know how long Gao Shun had served Lu Bu but that can make it harder to leave, it requires effort and sacrifice to defect.

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:59 am
by DaoLunOfShiji
Yīngxióngjì states: [Gāo] Shùn in his conduct was pure and dignified, he did not drink wine, and he did not accept gifts. He commanded over 700 troops called the Thousand Men. Their armor and weapons were all elite and in good order, and every time they attacked none were not defeated. They were called the Breaking-Lines Battalion. Shùn always admonished [Lǚ] Bù, saying: “Those who destroy their own family and state are not necessarily those lacking loyal servants or wise subordinates, but those who do not use them and that is all. General, when you act, you do not consider matters thoroughly, are always fond of speaking wrongly, and your mistakes are uncountable.” Bù knew he was loyal, but could not use his [warning]. Bù after Hǎo Méng rebelled neglected Shùn further. Because Wèi Xù was an outer and inner relative, [Lǚ Bù] always took Shùn’s commanded troops and gave them to Xù. When it was time for attack and battle, then Shùn would be returned command of Xù’s commanded troops. Shùn also to the end did not have any resentment.

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:49 am
by PeanutButterToast
I hope this is the right topic.

How accurate was the Three Kingdoms 2010 series in depicting the characters and soldiers, in terms of costume design and armor? Did the 1994 series do it better or worse?