Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Fornadan » Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:37 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:Sorry I'm bad with maps but is Bohai in Ji province or outside it?

inside

http://bookofjin.tumblr.com/image/169049794709
Translations from the Book of Jin: http://bookofjin.tumblr.com/index
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:16 am

Thank you both
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:38 am

Two questions

1) Zang Hong mentions (in a "why I rebelled" letter) Yuan Shao executed a Zhang Jingming (might be stylename) who had helped persuade Han Fu to surrender then served Lu Bu, does anyone have any information? I can't find anything in De Crespigny's encyclopaedia.

2) Does anyone have a translation or copy of the memorials where Cao Cao, having just taken in Xian, accused Yuan Shao of faction and Yuan Shao defended his record?
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Jia Nanfeng » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:20 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:Two questions

1) Zang Hong mentions (in a "why I rebelled" letter) Yuan Shao executed a Zhang Jingming (might be stylename) who had helped persuade Han Fu to surrender then served Lu Bu, does anyone have any information? I can't find anything in De Crespigny's encyclopaedia.

Jingming is Zhang Dao. You can find him in RdC’s encyclopedia under that name, though his biography is quite short.

RdC’s brief biographies for Ma Daosong and Peng Can also mention their work with him.

That’s all I have for now. :oops: I’ll keep looking.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:24 pm

Jia Nanfeng wrote:
Dong Zhou wrote:Two questions

1) Zang Hong mentions (in a "why I rebelled" letter) Yuan Shao executed a Zhang Jingming (might be stylename) who had helped persuade Han Fu to surrender then served Lu Bu, does anyone have any information? I can't find anything in De Crespigny's encyclopaedia.

Jingming is Zhang Dao. You can find him in RdC’s encyclopedia under that name, though his biography is quite short.

RdC’s brief biographies for Ma Daosong and Peng Can also mention their work with him.

That’s all I have for now. :oops: I’ll keep looking.


Given the only mention is some river work in 149, I'm guessing that is isn't the same one but it seems the only Jingming that matches.

Thanks Jia
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Jia Nanfeng » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:09 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:
Jia Nanfeng wrote:
Dong Zhou wrote:Two questions

1) Zang Hong mentions (in a "why I rebelled" letter) Yuan Shao executed a Zhang Jingming (might be stylename) who had helped persuade Han Fu to surrender then served Lu Bu, does anyone have any information? I can't find anything in De Crespigny's encyclopaedia.

Jingming is Zhang Dao. You can find him in RdC’s encyclopedia under that name, though his biography is quite short.

RdC’s brief biographies for Ma Daosong and Peng Can also mention their work with him.

That’s all I have for now. :oops: I’ll keep looking.


Given the only mention is some river work in 149, I'm guessing that is isn't the same one but it seems the only Jingming that matches.

Thanks Jia

After running Zhang Dao's Chinese wikipedia entry (https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%BC%A0%E5%AF%BC) through a translator, it seems it might be the same person after all.

It mentions his plan to fix a flooded river, as well as his later persuasion of Han Fu alongside Guo Tu and Gao Gan, and finally his execution (though it doesn't explain why).
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:55 pm

Well I'm pleasantly surprised and thank you
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:20 am

Who nominated Kong Rong as Inspector of Qing? De Crespigny notes in ZZTJ says Liu Biao, Kong Rong's biography in the SGZ says Liu Bei (which I suspect makes more sense), was hoping someone could clear it up for me?
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Han » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:37 am

Later Han Biographical Dictionery

Liu Bei nominated Kong Rong as Inspector of
Qing province, but in 196 Yuan Shao's son Yuan Tan
came to attack him. The conflict lasted several months,
but we are told that Kong Rong paid little attention,
preferring literary pursuits and elegant conversation.
Eventually, as the enemy entered his capital he fled to
Cao Cao, leaving his wife and children to be captured
by Yuan Tan.
Liu Bei did nothing wrong.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby DaoLunOfShiji » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:41 am

Text from the SGZ to back it up,

A local commandery man Zhēn Xǐrán for filial conduct was well known, died young, and Róng hated never meeting him, and therefore ordered Pèishí county to establish an altar. His respect for the worthy was all of this sort. He was the commandery for six years, and Liú Bèi memorialized Róng as Inspector of Qīngzhōu.
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