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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:58 am
by Sun Fin
We frequently talk about how Cao Cao was lucky to survive in comparison to Sun Ce. Anyone feel like helping me by list the historical occasions of this?

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:50 pm
by Dong Zhou
Off the top of my head: the Cao Hong rescue, Wan, Ma Chao, that early incident with Lu Bu. Not sure if any more.

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:10 am
by Han
Chronologically. Exceptional lucky moments.

Fleeing from Dong Zhuo's tyranny.

Fleeing from Xu Rong.

Surviving against Lü Bu's Yan province attacks even when isolated and during a long stretch of famine IIRC.

Successfully appeasing Yuan Shao.

Fleeing at Wancheng.

Forming succesful alliances with the Liang warlords during the Northen campaigns.

The successful ambush during the Wuhuan campaign.

Liu Biao's death during the Southern invasion.

Fleeing at Chibi.

Escaping Liu Bei's pursuit at Wulin.

Surviving Ma Chao's onslaught.

The Guanxi alliance being suspicious of one another.

Barely salvaging the Hanzhong loss.

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:10 am
by Sun Fin
Thanks guys :D

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:16 pm
by Qin Feng
I'm reading the novel, which means I don't really know what parts are legit and what aren't. But now that I think about it, I find it rather strange that Liu Bei rejected Tao Qian's offer to leave Xu in Liu Bei's hands. Why would he reject it when later on he would found his own kingdom by seizing land from the imperial family? Was it because Cao Cao wasn't so powerful then? Or was that entirely fabricated to make Liu Bei look like a paragon of confucian virtue and humility?

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:37 pm
by DaoLunOfShiji
Liu Bei did actually historically decline Tao Qian's offer. Tao Qian's thought on the matter was
“Other than Liu Bei, there is none other than can bring peace to this province.”

Eventually Bei did relent and accept the offer after men like MI Zhu, Chen Deng and Kong Rong were able to convince him otherwise. Kong Rong's proposal is still extant,
“Is Yuan Gonglu someone who will be concerned about the state and forget family? In what way are dried bones in the grave worthy of attention? As far as today’s matter is concerned, the people will adhere to men of ability. If one does not take what heaven offers, it will be too late if you regret it later.”

As is Chen Deng's talk with Yuan Shao
“Xuzhou is in a desperate situation and the people have no ruler. We have lost a few generals. I am afraid unscrupulous people will take this opportunity to dominate the land and this will increase the burden on the Chief of the Alliance. “Now we are asking the Governor of Pingyuan, Liu Bei, to take over so that the people have a good ruler. In these chaotic times, I am thus informing the Chief of the situation.”

And Shao replied
“Liu Xuande is indeed very trustworthy. The people of Xuzhou will be more than deserving to have him as their ruler.”

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:13 am
by Zyzyfer
Qin Feng wrote:I'm reading the novel, which means I don't really know what parts are legit and what aren't. But now that I think about it, I find it rather strange that Liu Bei rejected Tao Qian's offer to leave Xu in Liu Bei's hands. Why would he reject it when later on he would found his own kingdom by seizing land from the imperial family? Was it because Cao Cao wasn't so powerful then? Or was that entirely fabricated to make Liu Bei look like a paragon of confucian virtue and humility?


It's also worth pointing out, Cao Cao had it out for Tao Qian at this point and one could draw the assumption that maybe Liu Bei didn't want anything to do with that conflict at the time, or inheriting land that had been through two nasty wars already. So at first, maybe he declined the offer due to this. Tao Qian also didn't seem to have issues with his subordinates like Liu Zhang did, so another possibility is that Liu Bei didn't want to take on the role because not all of Tao Qian's subordinates may have followed his commands. Liu Zhang was an entirely different situation - not to mention that historically the "southern" Lius seemed quite disinterested in playing up to any imperial lineage ties, given how they set themselves up in distant outposts and carved out their own, basically independent, power bases.

Historically I also believe that at this time, Liu Bei wasn't really anti-Wei or anything yet (it barely existed at the time), so he wasn't really looking to position himself to counter Cao Cao specifically. In fact once he took over, he seemed more interested in opposing Yuan Shu than anything else.

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:57 pm
by Han
Total War just used kongming.net as a reference!!!

Pretty cool really.

https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war ... ds-liu-bei

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:32 pm
by Tao Qian
That's really cool! :D

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:02 pm
by Jia Nanfeng
Do the records mention anyone who had a pet or pets? Not counting horses of courses.