Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Han » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:39 am

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=23637

Here, Dong claims that there were six other officer on officer kills apart from Guan Yu vs Yan Liang. Who are these other six?
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Sun Fin » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:34 am

Han I'm not sure about officer on officer kills but the duels I'm aware of are:

1) Lu Bu beat Guo Si

2) Sun Ce fought Taischi Ci to a standstill

3) Yan Xing nearly killed Ma Chao

4) Ma Chao possibly fought with Yang Fu

Fornadan wrote:In writing his name was 張角

角 can be read (in pinyin) as jiǎo, jué or gǔ, each pronounciation representing different word

Of these jiǎo (meaning horn) is the most common one, and the one a reader would assume by default. However the traditional commentaries state in the case of 張角, jué is the correct one.

So basically someone who just see 張角 would assume Zhang Jiao. Someone deeper into the scholarship of the relevant texts would have learnt that it should be Zhang Jue.


To confuse things, I think I have read an article where the author mentions in a footnote that it should be Zhang Jiao after all


Thanks Fornadan, so it should be Zhang Jue but either is probably permissible at the casual level I'm writing at!
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Han » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:08 am

Could you elaborate on Ma Chao vs Yang Fu?

Thanks btw.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby ValHellen » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:10 am

Xu Yuan wrote:
ValHellen wrote:I'm aware of her advise to Yang Hu. My query is on another advise entirely.

Let me quote KOEI wiki on that.

"Like Wang Yuanji, she also viewed Zhong Hui with suspicion and confided in Yang Hu, "Zhong Hui is a person who does his actions on his own accord and will one day be someone who cannot serve under another." She then told her nephew to avoid him at all costs. Xin Xianying became worried when her son Yang Xiu was appointed as Zhong Hui's aid. She implored him to remain loyal and benevolent while on duty. Her advice kept him alive when Zhong Hui rebelled against the Sima family."


Looks like no one got back to you on this one. It's in the Lady Xing Xianying chapter of the work Notable Women of China: Shang Dynasty to the Early Twentieth Century (spellings in this work are all over the place) https://muse.jhu.edu/article/47547/pdf This scholar seems to believe in this work's intrinsic value and gives it a proper background, despite its occasional historical misteps (I saw several in the biographies of Xin Xianying and Cai Wenji alone). We are fortunate that her chapter is one of the few that are available to read on Google Books.

Presumably the primary source is from Yang Xiu's own Jinshu. In this Yang Xiu is taken by Zhong Hui as an advisor despite Yang Xiu's protestations to Sima Zhao (text says Yi, but that's clearly an error) as such his mother suggests that he fulfill his duty with respectfulness and utmost caution. He follows this and tries to dissuade Zhong Hui from rebelling to no avail, he is not punished by the Sima, but is rewarded for his loyal advice.


Dong Zhou wrote:While the phrasing isn't exact, that does seem to be based on the now lost 3kingdoms.net biography of her


Thank you to both! I had bad internet for the past few weeks so couldn't even log in, much apologies.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:01 pm

Han wrote:http://the-scholars.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=23637

Here, Dong claims that there were six other officer on officer kills apart from Guan Yu vs Yan Liang. Who are these other six?


Found out where I got that from http://the-scholars.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18943&p=456442&hilit=Huang+Longluo#p456442
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Sun Fin » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:41 pm

I'd never seen that list before, Dong! I've never paid much attention to Dong Xi before but that makes me feel his worth a closer inspection.

Han:

I misread my source, it said that Yang Fu was injured five times in the engagement. I somehow read that Ma Chao may have been responsible for those injuries! My mistake!
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Han » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:47 am

Thanks Sun and Dong!
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Han » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:03 pm

What was Cao Pi temple name? Shi Zu or Gao Zu? Wikipedia contradicts itself...
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Jia Nanfeng » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:24 pm

In 299, Jia Nanfeng plotted against Sima Yu and had him write, in a drunken state, that he was making sacrifices to the "Northern Sovereign". More specifics can be read in Taishi Ci 2.0's ZZTJ Book 83 translation.

The ZZTJ commentator Hu Sanxing says that the "the Northern Sovereign was the Northern Emperor (Xuanwu)."

My question is: Who, or what, exactly, is the Northern Emperor Xuanwu?
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Lord_Cao_Cao » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:50 pm

Jia Nanfeng wrote:In 299, Jia Nanfeng plotted against Sima Yu and had him write, in a drunken state, that he was making sacrifices to the "Northern Sovereign". More specifics can be read in Taishi Ci 2.0's ZZTJ Book 83 translation.

The ZZTJ commentator Hu Sanxing says that the "the Northern Sovereign was the Northern Emperor (Xuanwu)."

My question is: Who, or what, exactly, is the Northern Emperor Xuanwu?

Quick research makes me think it's the Black Tortoise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Tortoise
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