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Unread postby Sam » Thu Mar 06, 2003 8:17 pm

Zhou Gongjin wrote:I'm afraid I don't agree, these threads get awfully long and the objective of the thread gets pushed back when it turns into a debate thread. But then again who am I huh? Surely I have no experience whatsoever in moderating :roll:


I agree, Jon. Chris, Denny, one of you two create a thread aimed at the debate at hand. If you want to, you can copy and paste your posts into that thread, but if you haven't done so in the next couple of days, I'm deleting your posts.
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Unread postby Mega Zarak » Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:59 am

Wang Zijun wrote:
I agree, Jon. Chris, Denny, one of you two create a thread aimed at the debate at hand. If you want to, you can copy and paste your posts into that thread, but if you haven't done so in the next couple of days, I'm deleting your posts.

The problem with this is that not all TK related questions have a direct answer and sometimes, there are many different perspectives seen by different people based on the information they have on hand. The objective of my discussion with Denny was certainly not to churn out some debates but rather to provide a more complete answer pertaining to the question asked by a fellow member. Anyway, feel free to delete any of my posts if you want. :) Also, perhaps you can make a note in the beginning that this section is dedicated only for questions whereby the answers are short and simple.
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Unread postby Yu Angel » Fri Mar 07, 2003 2:29 am

New question!!!! Ok i just wanna know what the importance of the imperial seal was... err... tha's about it... and what are those circles near somone like the moderator two post above mine like has 3 green circles

EDIT:errr on addtion....how do you hange your name... phearful tyro to grand tutor of wei? or sumthin like that. well err sry if this was a bad post
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Unread postby Xiahou Mao » Fri Mar 07, 2003 4:04 am

The Imperial Seal was the symbol of the Emperor's power, and a sign of his right to rule the land. If somehow it ever left the Emperor's possession, the person who took it could claim that the Mandate of Heaven had left the Emperor and now rested with him, and thus declare himself to be Emperor of his own dynasty and contest the "former" Emperor's right to rule. Obviously, having the Seal isn't necessary in order to do that, but it did add some legitimacy to the new dynasty. It also can completely backfire, as Yuan Shu found out.

For the rest of your questions, I direct you to the following thread. http://the-scholars.com/viewtopic.php?t=3669
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Unread postby James » Fri Mar 07, 2003 4:39 am

Regarding the new thread/debate in this thread issue, the solution is simple. If you guys want to debate in this thread by all means please do. Moderators, if a debate starts to get big in this thread and you think it should be a new thread split the related posts from this thread into a new topic. Problem solved, everyone is happy, and we get to learn from a debate.

As for spamming inside a thread about what you think should or shouldn’t be in it, don’t, because it will earn a spam warning. Use private messages for that.
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Unread postby Sun jian » Fri Mar 07, 2003 3:23 pm

what happened to Sun Jing? did he help Wu after Jian's death? what about Jian's other kids(besides Quan, SSX, and Ce)?
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Unread postby Zhou Gongjin » Fri Mar 07, 2003 5:38 pm

Sun jian wrote:what happened to Sun Jing? did he help Wu after Jian's death? what about Jian's other kids(besides Quan, SSX, and Ce)?


That's a big question, maybe Denny can answer it. If not then I'll answer it tomorrow evening.
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Unread postby Jimayo » Fri Mar 07, 2003 8:28 pm

Zhou Gongjin wrote:That's a big question, maybe Denny can answer it. If not then I'll answer it tomorrow evening.


Sure. Pass the buck to me.

Rafe de Crespigny, from Generals of the South wrote:We have noted earlier that when Sun Jian was raising troops to join the campaign led by Zhu Jun against the Yellow Turbans, a part of his force was composed of personal and family followers led by his younger brother Sun Jing. The Sun family was neither large nor powerful(pik's commentary: lol, didn't take long for that to change :lol: ) but even a small unit could serve as the personal guard of a commander, and now that Sun Jian commanded a large army he had all the more reason to look for a nucleus of retainers whom he could trust among the amorphous mass of his ordinary troops. Sun Jian and other commanders of this period are known to have maintained groups of Companions, and in the uncertainty of the time such personal followers, family connections and associates were extremely important.51

51 On Sun Jing, see note 32 above.

32 SGZ 51/Wu 6, 1205, being the biography of Sun Jian's youngest brother Sun Jing, says that when Sun Jian first went into action, Sun Jing gathered some five or six hundred local and family followers and went to join him.
It seems likely this is a reference to Sun Jian's recruitment of followers in 184, and that would imply Sun Jing was responsible for a considerable component of his brothers forces.


Rafe de Crespigny, from Generals of the South wrote:Sun Ce had taken the opportunity of his march through Wu commandery to call up support from his connections in that region, and his uncle Sun Jing, youngest brother of Sun Jian, came to join him at Qiantang. Wang Lang's army was at the town of Guling, just over the water, and though Sun Ce tried several times to force his way across, he had no success. Then, however, Sun Jing arranged to lead a detachment of the army a few kilometres south to a river crossing at Zhadu, returning north to take Wang Lang's forces in the rear. Sun Ce had the rest of his men light the usual number of campfires so that the enemy would not realize any troops were missing, and he sent Sun Jing and his men off at night. Wang Lang was taken completely by surprise and the Sun forces were established across the river.34

34 SGZ 51/Wu 6, 1205


And that's it. The only other mention of him is when his son becomes Grand Administrator of Danyang.
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Unread postby Zhou Gongjin » Fri Mar 07, 2003 8:44 pm

You are forgetting to tell him about Sun Jing's sons, grandson, and Sun Jian's other kids and grand kids. Oh yeah and Sun Qiang's family too. Don't forget the in-laws from Sun Jian's sister's family. (WHAHAHAHA)
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Unread postby Jimayo » Fri Mar 07, 2003 9:07 pm

Zhou Gongjin wrote:You are forgetting to tell him about Sun Jing's sons, grandson, and Sun Jian's other kids and grand kids. Oh yeah and Sun Qiang's family too. Don't forget the in-laws from Sun Jian's sister's family. (WHAHAHAHA)


I'll let you handle those.
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