Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Join the Romance of the Three Kingdoms discussion with our resident Scholars. Topics relating to the novel and history are both welcome. Don't forget to check the Forum Rules before posting.
Kongming’s Archives: Romance of the Three Kingdoms
Three Kingdoms Officer Biographies
Three Kingdoms Officer Encyclopedia
Scholars of Shen Zhou Search Tool

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby DragonAtma » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:08 pm

Not normally, but exceptions occur. "The lord, my father, is in danger; how can I escape death alone?" -- Xiahou Rong, fifth son of Xiahou Yuan at the battle of Hanzhong (both would fight and die there).
Unless I specifically say otherwise, assume I am talking about historical Three Kingdoms, and not the novel.
DragonAtma
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 938
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:19 pm
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:52 am

In fairness to Yuan, I don't think he meant for his young son to end up fighting
“You, are a rebellious son who abandoned his father. You are a cruel brigand who murdered his lord. How can Heaven and Earth put up with you for long? And unless you die soon, how can you face the sight of men?”
User avatar
Dong Zhou
A-Dou
A-Dou
 
Posts: 14696
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:32 pm
Location: "Now we must die. May Your Majesty maintain yourself"

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Sun Fin » Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:09 am

Earlier in the Han Dynasty, when conscription was still carried out, there was a 23 minimum age to join the army. What was socially acceptable seemed to slide lower as time went on. I guess to a certain extent this was as the population of 20-30 year old's died out from the ongoing war.
“I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear.” ― Nelson Mandela
User avatar
Sun Fin
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 6568
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:20 pm
Location: The birthplace of radio

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby waywardauthor » Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:27 am

PeanutButterToast wrote:People would be fighting at age 12? Wow I knew they'd be young but dang son that's still a child.
The use of child soldiers is something particularly common in periods of demographic or institutional collapse. I have no doubt that in peacetime such soldiers, if they could even still become soldiers, would have served as support deep in the rear or logistics chain, or serve as an officer's attendant as they were probably some well-to-do's scion. Even in the American Civil War there were a number of child soldiers, most of whom were in supply trains and support staff, but there were a couple who took part in battles, and a number who died. Granted, most were young teenagers, but there were a number who were frighteningly young - and that is of a near modern state that is not at all as desperate as many of those in the Later Han period.
Alone I lean under the wispy shade of an aged tree,
Scornfully I raise to parted lips a cup of warm wine,
Longingly I cast an empty vessel aside those exposed roots,
And leave behind forgotten memories and forsaken dreams.
User avatar
waywardauthor
Master
 
Posts: 247
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:27 am

Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Sun Fin » Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:12 pm

Do we know anything of Ji Ling or Liu Xun's (of Yuan Shu's force) background or early life?
“I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear.” ― Nelson Mandela
User avatar
Sun Fin
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 6568
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:20 pm
Location: The birthplace of radio

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby waywardauthor » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:10 pm

Sun Fin wrote:Do we know anything of Ji Ling or Liu Xun's (of Yuan Shu's force) background or early life?

From Rafe's great big expensive book of biographies:

Liu Xun: Langye. As a magistrate in Pei during the late 180s, Liu Xun beame a close friend of Cao Cao. About 194 Yuan Shu appointed him administrator of Lujiang, and in 199 he received the remnants of Yuan Shu's party at his capital, Huan City.
Sun Ce, warlord south of theyangzi and an old rival of Liu Xun, was concerned at his increased power. He encouraged Liu Xun to attack south into Yuzhang to obtain supplies, but then left a detachment to cut him off and led his own army to seize Huan. Liu Xun sought help from Liu Bioa and his general Huang Zu, but they too were defeated and Liu Xun fled north to Cao Cao. Named a general and enfeoffed as a marquis, he served for some time as administrator of Henei, but his retainers were ill-disciplined and troublesome.
In 213 liu Xun joined in recommending Cao Cao for the Honour of the Nine Distinctions and enfeoffment as Duke of Wei. He became an associate of the heir Cao Pi, but later presumed upon Cao Cao's favour and was executed for extortion and corruption.

May or may not have had a twenty year old daughter who had a recurring ulcer in her left knee until it was cured by Hua Tuo by driving a snake from the wound.

Ji Ling's looks like an abridged entry with no new information.
Alone I lean under the wispy shade of an aged tree,
Scornfully I raise to parted lips a cup of warm wine,
Longingly I cast an empty vessel aside those exposed roots,
And leave behind forgotten memories and forsaken dreams.
User avatar
waywardauthor
Master
 
Posts: 247
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:27 am

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Sun Fin » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:29 pm

Thanks mate! :D
“I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear.” ― Nelson Mandela
User avatar
Sun Fin
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 6568
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:20 pm
Location: The birthplace of radio

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby PeanutButterToast » Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:56 am

Do we have records about public opinion of any of the rulers, that actually date from that time period or shortly after?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
User avatar
PeanutButterToast
Apprentice
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:38 am

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:07 am

Somewhat. Not in a "polls were conducted" way but things like where people moved to or away from but mostly when we discuss popularity, it will be around officer core/gentry. Those come from statements within the histories, comments of the time (though one has to take into account propaganda) and what the actions indicate.

Anyone you had in mind?
“You, are a rebellious son who abandoned his father. You are a cruel brigand who murdered his lord. How can Heaven and Earth put up with you for long? And unless you die soon, how can you face the sight of men?”
User avatar
Dong Zhou
A-Dou
A-Dou
 
Posts: 14696
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:32 pm
Location: "Now we must die. May Your Majesty maintain yourself"

Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby DragonAtma » Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:28 pm

Opinions were divided on most rulers, but Sun Hao was widely hated; regents Sun Chen and Sun Jun were also widely hated. After the battle of Xingshi, Cao Shuang was also rather unpopular.

In the "slightly after" category, Sima Zhong (second Jin emperor, and great-grandson of Sima Yi) was known to be retarded; even as an adult, he had the mind of a child, and was known to ask in all seriousness, "Do they [frogs] croak because they want to, or because the government ordered them to?"". Naturally, he needed a regent his entire nineteen-year reign, causing the War of the Eight Princes. But despite that, they don't blame western Jin's collapse on him so much as on the greedy regents (he had NINE regencies, and all except the last regent -- who murdered Sima Zhong -- were captured killed or oirdered to commit suicide).
Unless I specifically say otherwise, assume I am talking about historical Three Kingdoms, and not the novel.
DragonAtma
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 938
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:19 pm
Location: Long Island, NY

PreviousNext

Return to Sanguo Yanyi Symposium

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved