Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Han » Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:49 pm

Exactly lmao. Some of his assumptions are just so wild to take seriously.

And I wish he would give more credit for Guan Yu at Baima and Liu Bei at Hanzhong. Oh well...
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Han » Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:54 pm

Anyways I have a couple questions.

Has anyone ever counted the amount of duels there are in the Three Kingdoms era?

I remember reading that Liu Bei himself once killed a general when he was pillaging at Runan. Is that a fiction thing or true?

In fact, how many named general kills were there during the era?

During Changban did Zhao Yun fight any enemies? The Sgz was not specific about that.

If I remember correctly, when Liu Shan posthumously honour Zhao Yun, he describe Zhao Yun helping him at Changban.

What was Chen Dao role under Liu Bei? When did he die? What was his relationship with Zhao Yun like?
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Elitemsh » Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:40 pm

I'll just answer the questions about Zhao Yun. No one knows for sure. But according to the various SGZ, Cao Cao's 5000 light cavalry routed Liu Bei's army completed. Only Liu Bei and rest of the men on horse could escape. Zhao Yun fled with Liu Bei at first. Then at some point he turned back which means that I think it's likely he ran into some enemies since the family was left behind and the enemy had already caught up to Liu Bei's army. Zhao Yun is a main part of the army after all.

Certainly without Zhao Yun's actions it seems certain that Cao Cao's army, probably Cao Chun since he captured the daughters, would have raped/killed Lady Gan and killed the boy or maybe use him as a hostage. I don't know if he showed martial prowess but Zhao Yun did a heroic thing that day.

Chen Dao had a rank on similar level to Zhao Yun and was apparently was known for 'feats of loyalty and prowess' like Zhao Yun. I think there's an SGZ for Chen Dao somewhere. It's a few lines long. I think he was also stationed with Li Yan later for a political reason by Zhuge Liang. Dong Zhou may know more about this.

I'd also add that it was pretty bad of Liu Bei to have so little regard for his own family. I mean he just left them all behind. How can a man claim to care about the common people if he doesn't give a damn about his own children? Id say that Zhao Yun was better morally than Liu Bei but that's just my opinion.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Han » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:42 pm

Liu Bang tried to abandon his family too. Since Liu Bei wish to be an emperor ever since he was young, he will most likely compare himself to the famous Han emperors, so Im not surprise he followed Liu Bang actions
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:11 pm

1) Lu Bu vs Guo Si, Sun Ce vs Taschi Ci and possibly Yan Xing vs Ma Chao

2) Cai Yong possibly? But more in defeats and then kills rather then hand to hand combat

3) No idea

4) I think the assumption is if Zhao Yun did have any fight, it would have been very small scale but like Elitemsh says, it as a brave thing to do.

I think Liu Bang got flak becuase he literally kicked family out of his carriage, Liu Bei and Cao Cao (for Wan) didn't in their own time or in the aftermath. I think this was one of those "times of war, sometimes less then ideal things happen" so got accepted. I would say Liu Bei doesn't tend to come across well in regards his family life, repeated losing of wives and daughters, loses one son but Yun rescues him, forces the death of another (I think Liu Bei was justified on that one mind), there is an annotation that accuses Liu Bei of causing a near revolt among his ladies for paying more attention to a jade statue then to them, SSX mutual disaster, 3kingdom style incestuous marriage, his memorial to Liu Shan as he lay dying doesn't suggest they spent much time together from what I recall. There is more written about how good looking Lady Gan was then there is of Liu Bei having good time with family.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Han » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:30 pm

Thanks! Additional Questions.

Other than Xü province massacre did Cao Cao or any of his generals ever massacre/plunder other places?

Who massacred or/and plundered more Cao Cao, Liu Bei or Sun Quan?

Who killed more innocents. Cao Cao, Liu Bei or Sun Quan?

According to wikipedia, Mongolian people worship Guan Yu... why??? I mean... the Mongolian people don't really like the Chinese...

Who is the best general of the late Han Dynasty/Three Kingdoms period?

How does this site compare him to the likes of Bai Qi, Han Xin, Yue Fei, Xiang Yu and Huo Qubing?

Basically, is the best general of this period superior or inferior to the likes of these other Chinese Legends?
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Fornadan » Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:41 pm

Every military operation would have involved some degree of plundering.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:29 am

1) I think there was massacre in the north but it wasn't general policy. Pillaging? Most likely

2) On massacres, think joint 2 for Cao Cao and Quan, 0 for Liu Bei. Plundering, who knows. We only know about the Qing plundering becuase of the famine for example, plundering wasn't uncommon but nobody listed an exact tally

3) Again, no tally

4) no idea

5) Everyone will have their own view on that. There isn't one single agreed upon figure
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Sun Fin » Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:14 am

Dong Zhou wrote:1) Lu Bu vs Guo Si, Sun Ce vs Taschi Ci and possibly Yan Xing vs Ma Chao


It's not a duel but officer on officer you've got Guan Yu vs Yan Liang as well.

Most people here tend to view Cao Cao is the greatest general. I've spent time arguing Sun Ce's case but it's difficult to put his short career up against Cao Cao's. You end up with a lot of what ifs.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby waywardauthor » Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:49 am

Fornadan wrote:Every military operation would have involved some degree of plundering.

This.

Unless there is an express mention of plundering and pillaging being made illegal in a campaign for a specific region by military command, which happens on rare occasion, there will be a great deal of such activities. In European circles it is referred to euphemistically as "foraging" or its slaughter-happy cousin "harrying" but it is more or less identical. Supply chains are typically supplemental goods that are to make up for shortfalls in foraging expeditions and for when advances stall. The devastation of Liang province was probably instrumental in creating the chronic food shortages of Shu expeditions north, as they became wholly dependent upon supply lines stretched over hundreds of li.
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