Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Han » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:53 pm

Should Sun Quan have posthumously honor his brother Sun Ce as Emperor?
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:23 pm

Han wrote:Should Sun Quan have posthumously honor his brother Sun Ce as Emperor?


Probably not as he then leads to "is not Ce's sons the legitimate emperor" and while Quan is alive, that is not likely to be a huge problem, it could become a major issue for his successors and bring about a potential rival.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Han » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:36 pm

Sun Ce only had one posthumous(?) Son i think..., who died early btw.

Anyway, Sima Yan posthumously honor his uncle Sima Shi as emperor so...
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby DragonAtma » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:44 pm

I disagree, as it's customary for dynasty founders to declare their ancestors (and such) emperors -- Cao Pi honored Cao Cao and Cao Song as emperors, Sima Yan honored Sima Yi, Sima Shi, and Sima Zhao as emperor, and Liu Bang honored his still-living father as Grand Emperor.

Now, Sun Ce isn't Sun Quan's father, but as the founder of what became Wu it's only natural he was honored posthumously. As for Sun Shao (Gongli)? was only twelve when Sun Ce died, plus he was merely granted the family name, not adopted. And as for Sun Ce's biological son? He was born posthumously -- which means that when he turned nineteen and had his capping ceremony (Chinese ceremony of adulthood), Sun Quan had been emperor for nineteen years!

So the only case where Sun Quan would be threatened by Sun Ce's lineage would be if Sun Quan really screwed up -- and that didn't happen.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Lord_Cao_Cao » Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:26 pm

DragonAtma wrote:And as for Sun Ce's biological son? He was born posthumously -- which means that when he turned nineteen and had his capping ceremony (Chinese ceremony of adulthood), Sun Quan had been emperor for nineteen years!

Huh?
Sun Ce's son was probably born in 200 or 201 at the latest, so he turned 19 in 219 or 220. And Sun Quan wasn't emperor then...

Sima Shi didn't have any sons who could have contested Sima Yan's (or his successor's) emperorship later on. So I'd assume it was safer to grant Sima Shi the posthumous honor for his merits than granting it to Sun Ce, who had a son (and grandson for that matter).
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby DragonAtma » Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:58 am

Whoops, wrong term -- what I meant to say is that Sun Quan had been the ruler, not emperor for 19 years. Sorry!
Unless I specifically say otherwise, assume I am talking about historical Three Kingdoms, and not the novel.

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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby wk123 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:37 am

Hope this has not been asked already.

Regent Marshal and Grand Commander, what differentiates them?


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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby ValHellen » Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:40 am

wk123 wrote:Hope this has not been asked already.

Regent Marshal and Grand Commander, what differentiates them?


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Add Grand Commandant to that. How high was Jia Xu historically? How did he compare with Sima Yi, Chen Qun and Cao Zhen?

Also anyone has any information on Dong Yun at all?

Additionally, wikipedia has this on Fei Yi's article,

"As the chief assistant to Jiang Wan, Fei Yi handled mostly domestic matters. He was described as so quick in his comprehension and decisions that he only needed the mornings to carry out his duties, and he spent the afternoons entertaining guests. He was particularly skilful at playing weiqi. When Dong Yun succeeded him, he tried to follow Fei Yi's schedule, but after several days, the paperwork quickly backlogged, forcing him to work all day. Dong Yun was thus amazed at Fei Yi's abilities."

No citation AND Wikipedia, that's very untrustworthy, but this anecdote sounds too much like it came from somewhere. The problem is it states Dong Yun as succeeding Fei Yi rather than the other way around. I guess it's a false account?
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Han » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:34 am

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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby ValHellen » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:37 am


Yeah but wasn't it supposed to be Fei Yi replacing Dong Yun?
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