Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:09 am

Total War’s description of Pang Tong has the line “Crown of Learned Men” about Pang Tong. Any idea where that is from?
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Lord Yang Jiahua » Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:40 pm

There's definitely a better answer than mine, But no I have no idea where that's from at least in the translation versions of the books.

His style if Shiyuan so its not that, the novel subordinates Pang Tong to Zhuge Liang in role and importance, and the oft line that having either of them as adviser could allow one to conquer China.

This sounds like a definite invention, the thinest thread may be if you think of people in the books recommending Pang Tong as being the Best of Us, or has even more Ideas than me (Zhuge Liang), you could get a sense of King of the scholars from that, but it still has to be invention.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Hasdrubal » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:47 pm

It was from a quote attributed Sima Hui about Pang Tong supposedly.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby greencactaur » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:15 pm

What was the final campaign for ZL like? Did Sima Yi and ZL forces actually Skirmish with one another at one point, or did Sima Yi simply refuse to open his gates from start to finish, and Zl died due to illness?
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:54 am

greencactaur wrote:What was the final campaign for ZL like? Did Sima Yi and ZL forces actually Skirmish with one another at one point, or did Sima Yi simply refuse to open his gates from start to finish, and Zl died due to illness?


There was a skirmish between Guo Huai and Shu forces as Guo Huai prepared defences at a potential danger route but otherwise Sima Yi sat on the defensive and avoided battle
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:06 pm

While I understand that siege weaponry wasn't too fancy at the time it seems like they weren't really utilized much in sieges. Couldn't people use catapults and such to bombard defending forces?

It just seems like the default tactic was to surround enemies until they gave up. Which in scenarios like Zhuge Liang's northern campaigns didn't help him much.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby DaoLunOfShiji » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:38 pm

When you look at the 258 Siege of Shouchun during Zhuge Dan's rebellion when Wen-di attacked, Wang Ji constructed elevated siege ramparts around the cities and fires arrow into it. Specifically arrows, stones and catapults are mentioned as being used, both offensively and defensively.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:00 am

I think siege weapons just tend not to get mentioned unless something happened or to highlight something like Hao Zhao managing to outdo all of Zhuge Liang's efforts at Chencang, it may have been seen as a default thing to have at siege if one had the time and resources to do so. There are sieges were no weapons are mentioned until "so and so retreats, burns siege weapons"
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:43 pm

Interesting, thanks for the replies, I have to wonder how effective siege weapons were if they arw hardly ever even mentioned and there are still multi year sieges.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Sanji Himura » Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:40 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:I think siege weapons just tend not to get mentioned unless something happened or to highlight something like Hao Zhao managing to outdo all of Zhuge Liang's efforts at Chencang, it may have been seen as a default thing to have at siege if one had the time and resources to do so. There are sieges were no weapons are mentioned until "so and so retreats, burns siege weapons"


Just to go off a tangent for a moment, I would also argue that siege weapons are not mentioned because they are usually too heavy to be lugged around by the average foot soldier for potentially a few KM only to be burnt fully assembled.

If European warfare is to be a sign, I would reasonably see that catapults would take at least a crew of 8 to fully man, and that is without support from archers from the towers. Furthermore, archery towers would take a lot more men to even haul around the battlefield.

This speaks of the importance of camps where they are both easily defendable and mobile in case of too forward of an advance. The camps would carry most of the supplies for an advancing army including siege weaponry like a mobile HQ.

I likely got most of this wrong according to history, but I felt like I should add to the conversation.
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