greencactaur wrote:Oh that's interesting. Is there a English translation online?
Yun's SGZ, search Yún Biézhuàn
greencactaur wrote:Oh that's interesting. Is there a English translation online?
The heretic rebel Xu Chang rose at Juzhang and named himself Emperor Yangming. With his son Xu Shao he stirred up various prefectures, and his followers numbered in the tens of thousands. Sun Jian, as the Major of the commandery, recruited the elite and the brave, totalling more than a thousand men and defeated Xu Chang by coalition with the various prefectures of the province. That year was the first year of Xiping.
Sun Jian's appointment as a junior officer came at just about the same time as the outbreak of the rebellion of Xu Chang, a man who pretended to supernatural powers and made a rising at Juzhang in Kuaiji commandery, now in the region of Ningbo on the south of Hangzhou Bay
I also would like to know your opinion on Cao Pi overthrowing the emperor. I think what Cao Pi did is right. Incompetent ruler ought to be replaced with a more competent one, and it seems Cao Pi was quite competent. Some said that he's ruthless, but if he, as Cao Xiu's SGZ states, "When Cao Xiu was about to leave, the emperor went to see him off personally with an escort of chariots, and alighted from his carriage to hold Cao Xiu’s hands in farewell" then I think he's quite a good guy. I don't get why both Shu and Wu hated that and now they're declaring themselves emperor. Didn't that just prove that they are, you know, hypocrite? Besides, I think Cao Pi is the best out of the three. Of course, Cao Cao is better but he's never an emperor.
So I think what I want to know is that do you think Cao Pi is wrong for usurping the throne?
Sun Fin wrote:In Generals of the South Prof Rafe says the Chinese word used to describe Xu Chang is: yaoze. I don't know what connatations that word brings but he also says:Sun Jian's appointment as a junior officer came at just about the same time as the outbreak of the rebellion of Xu Chang, a man who pretended to supernatural powers and made a rising at Juzhang in Kuaiji commandery, now in the region of Ningbo on the south of Hangzhou Bay
It doesn't definitively confirm he was a Daoist but certainly he was a mystic of some description.
Dong Zhou wrote:I also would like to know your opinion on Cao Pi overthrowing the emperor. I think what Cao Pi did is right. Incompetent ruler ought to be replaced with a more competent one, and it seems Cao Pi was quite competent. Some said that he's ruthless, but if he, as Cao Xiu's SGZ states, "When Cao Xiu was about to leave, the emperor went to see him off personally with an escort of chariots, and alighted from his carriage to hold Cao Xiu’s hands in farewell" then I think he's quite a good guy. I don't get why both Shu and Wu hated that and now they're declaring themselves emperor. Didn't that just prove that they are, you know, hypocrite? Besides, I think Cao Pi is the best out of the three. Of course, Cao Cao is better but he's never an emperor.
So I think what I want to know is that do you think Cao Pi is wrong for usurping the throne?
Emperor Xian was never given a chance to rule and showed he was quite bright so hard to say he was incompetent. Cao Xiu was a childhood friend of Cao Pi's, it is a nice moment but people tend not to like him for the forced suicides and the executions (some unhappiness over treatment of brothers as well)
Culturally Cao Pi's ascension gets flak for a few reasons, the chaos that followed for centuries after meant the Han became a beacon of nostalgia and stability so the guy that ended it was not going to be popular. There were huge mandate of heaven debates from later generations between Shu and Wei, Wei's failure to unite the land was seen as reflecting badly on Cao Cao and Cao Pi as it meant Heaven didn't favour them which was seen as down to moral failings on their part.
Personally? No particular issue with it, he was clearly in a position to make the change. Maybe might have been better to unite land first but there are risks with that. Don't think it is fair to blame Shu and Wu for responding to such major chances with their own rather them hamper themselves, I don't think it proves them hypocrites.
Return to Sanguo Yanyi Symposium
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests
Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved