Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Sun Fin » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:13 am

ItssLuBu wrote:Could anyone tell me more about some of Liu Bei's early followers, I have read the bio's before on Sun Quan, Mi Zhu and Jian Yong but would love to know more.


Chen Shou's intention when he write the SGZ was that the rulers biographies were the main ones (ie Liu Bei) that told the main history of what happened. Then the other officers only got bios when they did something remarkable or there involvement in history deviated to what the ruler did. For example we know about what Jian Yong did when he was sent as an envoy and so was working separately from Liu Bei. that way Chen Shou was saved form writing the same thing multiple times but at the same time it means officers like those are neglected.
Interested in the history behind the novel? Find a list of english language Three Kingdom sources here.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Han » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:50 am

Are there any sources that attribute Mi Fang rebellion to Lady Mi fate?

https://daolunofshiji.tumblr.com/post/1 ... play#notes

If yes, what are the sources?

As I recall the Zztj reason for Mi Fang rebellion is because of Guan Yu arrogance and the Sgz reason for Mi Fang rebellion was because Guan Yu wanted to punish Mi Fang for some supplies mistake.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:46 am

Short answer: No.

Long answer: One can use sources to say due to Guan Yu handling of the fire issue, Fu Shiren's defection leaving the situation bad for Mi Fang, Yu Fan's silver tongue as reasons Mi Fang left, anything more is just theory. While I can see the logic of "Liu Bei treatment of one's sister might not make one loyal" as a musing, it can only be a theory and can't be deemed factual.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Han » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:53 am

Sigh... I knew it...
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby DaoLunOfShiji » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:49 am

Directly responsible was bad wording on my part, I apologize. However I truly do not put it past Mi Fang to hold Lady Mi's either death or abandonment against Liu Bei. She was his sister after all. Certainly it was not the only, final nor largest reason for his defection. There were many factors in his eventual betrayal, and I apologize for stating it was the direct reason.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Han » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:42 am

Its fine lmao. I was just shocked because I could not find that information anywhere.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Andros » Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:46 pm

Hello together,

I made my own TOP 5 Ranking of Wu Generals (in the period 208-222) , but I need some help for the last two free spots.

My Top 5 are:
Zhou Tai
Gan Ning
Ling Tong
???????
???????

You can choose two of these characters:

Ding Feng - killed Zhang Liao, but was only a subgeneral and his great time was later
Cheng Pu - yeah he was a great number, but after Nanjun he didn't fight
Lu Meng - correct me if I am wrong, but he was a strategist or did he really fight?
Zhu Ran - his great accomplishments took place after the mentioned time period. Or am I wrong about that?
Lu Xun - more a strategists???
Taishi Ci - Died in Hefei or rather before Chibi.
Xu Sheng - Was he a top general or did he beat a great general?
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Han » Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:50 pm

Just an advice. But if you are trying to create your own version of 5 Tigers or 5 Elite, remember that their death dates must be around the same.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Sun Fin » Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:27 pm

Andros wrote:Hello together,

I made my own TOP 5 Ranking of Wu Generals (in the period 208-222) , but I need some help for the last two free spots.

My Top 5 are:
Zhou Tai
Gan Ning
Ling Tong
???????
???????

You can choose two of these characters:

Ding Feng - killed Zhang Liao, but was only a subgeneral and his great time was later
Cheng Pu - yeah he was a great number, but after Nanjun he didn't fight
Lu Meng - correct me if I am wrong, but he was a strategist or did he really fight?
Zhu Ran - his great accomplishments took place after the mentioned time period. Or am I wrong about that?
Lu Xun - more a strategists???
Taishi Ci - Died in Hefei or rather before Chibi.
Xu Sheng - Was he a top general or did he beat a great general?


Welcome to the board Andros! That's an interesting question. I would suggest we take this discussion of it to this thread as its a question that could prompt some debate and I'd hate to see it get buried!

I'm going to post my thoughts there.
Interested in the history behind the novel? Find a list of english language Three Kingdom sources here.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby CaTigeReptile » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:24 pm

LiuBeiwasGreat wrote:
The reason why it makes little sense to fight Guan Yu and ignore Zhou Yu is the size of threats. Guan Yu has at most 10,000 soldiers and no real supply line. After all, he has to cross Wei held Jiang Ling (currently under siege) to attack Xiang Yang. He has no way to actually threaten the city beside raid the country side as Liu Bei has only just taken the four southern districts and hasn't even build Gong An yet probably (or is in the process of).

It is like as if Cao Cao sent an army after Liu Bei when he was raiding him in Run Nan and completely ignored Yuan Shao who has a giant army right next to him.

Zhou Yu has between thirty to fifty thousand solders besieging Jiang Ling, with Guan Yu driven off back to south of the river there is no threat to Xiang Yang anymore (not that there was much of one in the first place) There is no one to leave it undefended against. If Liu Bei wanted to siege Xiang Yang he would have to maintain a supply line from Gong An all the way past Zhou Yu's siege of Jiang Ling all the way up to Xiang Yang. That isn't feasible or realistic in any way, as the priority isn't in Zhou Yu's reinforcements but Zhou Yu.


I'm trying to figure out where you're getting these numbers and estimates. I can't really give any kind of good response without knowing where that's coming from. I mean, we don't know the exact circumstances in Xiangyang but clearly Cao Cao thought there was a reason to keep two of his very capable generals stationed there to begin with, and leaving a place empty is never a good idea. But again, until I get the info you have I can't really say much back
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