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Unread postby Lady Wu » Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:34 am

James wrote:Question from the ol’ mailbox:

Does Cao Cao have a daughter? What's her name?

I do seem to recall him having daughters, but I also recal absolutely no specific details about them. Do we have any information at all in regard to this question? I would certainly be surprised to see a name, but perhaps a quantity…


I'm an idiot.

The daughters of Cao Cao's who were married to Emperor Xian had their names recorded in the HHS (I'm glad that I bought this hardcover HHS now!).

HHS wrote:Empress Cao of Emperor Xian's personal name is Jie, and she was the middle daughter of Cao Cao, Duke of Wei. In the 18th year of the Jian'an reign, Cao Cao sent in three of his daughters--Cao Xian, Cao Jie, and Cao Hua--to be Ladies of the Court, and received 50,000 bolts of dark silk cloth as the gift from the groom's family. The youngest daughter remained in her fief as she was not of marriageable age yet. In the 19th year, all of them were made Honoured Ladies. Empress Fu was murdered, and in the year after that, Cao Jie was made Empress. When Wei received the throne [from Han], the court sent an envoy to take the Empress' cord and seal from her. The Empress was infuriated and refused to give them up. More envoys were sent, and finally the Empress ordered them to come in the room. She personally rebuked them over and over, and then, her face covered in tears, she tossed the seal onto the floor and said, "May the Heavens not protect your reign!" None of those present dared to look up upon her countenance. She was empress for 7 years.

After the Wei court was settled, she was made Lady of the Duke of Shanyang. She died in the fist year of the Jingchu reign of Wei [AD 237], at the age of 41. She was buried along with [the ex-Emperor Xian], and her funeral and all related ceremonies were conducted according to the Han rites.
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Unread postby harshbarge » Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:44 am

what was the legal age of marriage
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Unread postby Jon » Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:20 am

It was something like 15 to 20 for young men, and 14 - 15 for women. From what I've noticed... nobles were often married at a relatively young age, probably 12 - 16. However, most were decided through an agreement of the father of the individual clans taking part in the ceremony.

The two people actually getting married probably had relatively scarce contact with eachother or may not have even met, since marriage was mainly used to create supportive ties between families for the good of the households before the good of the two who were married.

I'm really not sure about the information in the first paragraph, a lot of that is just what I interpret when I read books on Chinese history.
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Unread postby Lady Wu » Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:37 am

Mac's absolutely right.

All I can add to that is that men come into adulthood at the age of 20, at the capping ceremony, and women's adulthood ceremony (the hairpin ceremony) takes place when they are 15. After that they are considered mature adults that can start a family. At least this is the Zhou Dynasty ideal.

As Mac pointed out, marriage could come earlier. Zhang Fei's wife, the younger sister of Xiahou Ba, was 13 or 14 when Zhang Fei met her and married her. I'm not sure if it gets younger than that, since in the Jin Shu, it is recorded that Sima Yan originally wanted to take Jia Chong's younger daughter to be Sima Zhong's wife, but she was only 12 at that time so they had to take the older sister (who turned out to be insane).

There are things that you just can't do when you're married too young.
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Unread postby Six_and_Up » Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:43 pm

Does anyone know we exactly Chen Shou finished SGZ? I'm just wondering when it was completed and the time span between SGZ and the fall of Wu.
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Unread postby Sima Hui » Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:03 pm

I don't know exactly, but it must have been in the late 290's.
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Unread postby Wizardman » Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:38 pm

Six_and_Up wrote:Does anyone know we exactly Chen Shou finished SGZ? I'm just wondering when it was completed and the time span between SGZ and the fall of Wu.


He probably completed it after the fall of Wu. When afterwards, I'm not sure. I'd have to go with the late 280's-early 290's based on how it is. Is we were able to look at later SGZ bios, we may be able to figure it out.
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Unread postby melee » Sat Aug 28, 2004 7:54 am

hmm,maybe someone has posted this question :cry:
which city in rtk era is beijing,capital of china nowaday?_nanpi?
i wish someone here can show me relation between cities in rtk era and nowaday...
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Unread postby Sima Hui » Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:42 am

It would probably have been in the You province. Maybe... Beiping was the closest city to where it was? I'm sorry, I don't really know where.
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Unread postby Ghost_of_Han » Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:40 am

Dong Zhuo, was said to have moved the capital to Chang'an and created the Palace of Mei. Is this historically accuarate?
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