Would Guan Yu Have won at Fan?

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Would Guan Yu Have won at Fan?

Unread postby Zhou Gongjin » Wed Feb 26, 2003 11:31 pm

We know that Guan Yu had to leave from his seige against Wei forces at Fan and Xiangyang because Lü Meng had taken over Southern Jing. If Lü Meng instead would have moved his armies north-east over the Yangzi and the Huai, and attacked Wei instead, would that mean Guan Yu would defeat Wei? What would happen in Hanchang, Nan and the other commanderies?
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Unread postby Jimayo » Wed Feb 26, 2003 11:37 pm

I'd have to say yes. The battle was almost over, and the only reason that Cao Ren continued to hold out, instead of fleeing, is cause he received word that Wu would be invading Jing.
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Unread postby Wen Yang » Wed Feb 26, 2003 11:53 pm

I have to say yes and no. Lu Meng could have used the same tactics he did against Guan Yu and had the same favorable results against Wei. So Guan Yu would have been able to defeat Cao Ren. But I am sure Lu Meng would just turn on Guan Yu after Wei was defeated though, so Guan Yu would probably have lost in the long run anyway.
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Unread postby Zhou Gongjin » Thu Feb 27, 2003 12:00 am

Wen Yang wrote:I have to say yes and no. Lu Meng could have used the same tactics he did against Guan Yu and had the same favorable results against Wei. So Guan Yu would have been able to defeat Cao Ren. But I am sure Lu Meng would just turn on Guan Yu after Wei was defeated though, so Guan Yu would probably have lost in the long run anyway.


Let's say that Lu Meng took Xu. How would he prevent Guan Yu from attacking Jing? If Sun Jiao was in Jing, and Lu Xun in Hanchang with a small force, would Lü Meng have the time to go back into Jing and capture Nan? Let's also not forget that Lü Meng was sick at that time.
What was Guan Yu trying to acheive with the battle at Fan?
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Unread postby Jimayo » Thu Feb 27, 2003 12:22 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't he ordered to take Fan? In order to prevent Wei from invading(who they had received reports were preparing an invasion force to take Jing).
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Unread postby Elemental » Thu Feb 27, 2003 12:27 am

I would say yes. He had almost already won, and would have done so, if he didn't have to go chase Lu Meng.
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Unread postby Zhou Gongjin » Thu Feb 27, 2003 1:11 am

Lord Zhuge wrote:I would say yes. He had almost already won, and would have done so, if he didn't have to go chase Lu Meng.


He didn't chase Lu Meng at all, he came back to his headquarters, his forces deserted and he was killed in one last battle.

The order for Guan Yu to attack Fan seems rather dangerous to me, as it would not really help Shu at all to leave their flank open to Wu like that.
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Unread postby Jimayo » Thu Feb 27, 2003 1:17 am

Zhou Gongjin wrote:He didn't chase Lu Meng at all, he came back to his headquarters, his forces deserted and he was killed in one last battle.

The order for Guan Yu to attack Fan seems rather dangerous to me, as it would not really help Shu at all to leave their flank open to Wu like that.


Yeah. As I'm sure you know, Rafe says that Liu Bei and Guan Yu massively underestimated the threat from Wu.
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Unread postby HauntedPerfection » Thu Feb 27, 2003 1:50 pm

No, Guan Yu had no idea what he was doing, his Drunk brother had more wits than he did. Guan Yu would have probaly fell into a river and be to stupid to let go of his precious blade and would soon drown. :twisted:
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Unread postby Shadowlink » Thu Feb 27, 2003 5:02 pm

if cao ren won guan yu. guan yu might not have to die. i mean cao cao wanted guan yu to help him.
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