Page 1 of 5

Xu Shu or Guo Jia?

Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2003 1:22 am
by akusunokimasa
Who do you think was really more talented as a strategist/advisor. I would say Xu Shu was. Jia is way too overated and most people agree. so what do you think?

Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2003 1:32 am
by rcsha
I would rather have Guo Jia serving under me. For one thing I think he's a better stategist, Xu Shu seemed to have everything based on formations and book knowledge. But even besides that, Guo Jia showed more loyalty. Xu Shu was said to have, historically, joined Wei during the battle at Dang Yang, rather than having been tricked by Cheng Yu.

Now Xu Shu was said to be stronger and a better warrior than Guo Jia. But that's because he was originally a swordsman and Guo Jia was always a scholar and a strategist.

Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2003 1:43 am
by Ender
rcsha wrote:Now Xu Shu was said to be stronger and a better warrior than Guo Jia. But that's because he was originally a swordsman and Guo Jia was always a scholar and a strategist.


That's why I like Xu Shu. He was a warrior as well as a good, I said good not great, strategest. Its hard to tell who I would want more but I would probably rather have Guo Jia. He was a better strategest and like you said probably more loyal. Don't get me wrong I like Xu Shu to but would rather have Guo Jia.

Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2003 1:48 am
by rcsha
Ender wrote:That's why I like Xu Shu. He was a warrior as well as a good, I said good not great, strategest. Its hard to tell who I would want more but I would probably rather have Guo Jia. He was a better strategest and like you said probably more loyal. Don't get me wrong I like Xu Shu to but would rather have Guo Jia.


Yes someting I'd also like to note, I like both Guo Jia and Xu Shu, they are both some of my favorite characters. However I had to look at an unbiased view, and henceforth picked Guo Jia.

Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2003 3:22 am
by Simfish
It's often hard to decide, as both strategists served their ruler for a very short time. Guo Jia died young, while Shan Fu left Liu Bei's service soon after joining Bei.

Guo Jia probably would have been much more loyal to Cao Cao than Shan Fu would have been to Liu Bei. However, Shan Fu still had great filial loyalty to his mother, and he still refused to serve Cao Cao by giving out useful advice. It is hard to decide whether filial or kingdom loyalty is better.

But in strategies, Guo Jia was better than Shan Fu was to Liu Bei, in my opinion. Guo Jia also excelled in civil administration, while I am not so sure about Shan Fu. While both led enemies into traps, I do believe that if they were facing agaisnt each other, Guo Jia's army would win.

Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2003 3:30 am
by Ender
Depending on what your reading the story of Xu Shu going to Cao Cao by being tricked by Cheng Yu is different from what historically happened. In SGYY he goes to Cao Cao through deception but historically he joined Cao Mengde during battle.

Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2003 3:31 am
by Simfish
In SGYY he goes to Cao Cao through deception but historically he joined Cao Mengde during battle.


May I ask where is the evidence of Xu Shu joining Cao Cao during battle?

(I've only read SGYY, and do not understand Chinese, so I cannot understand SGZ or other historical Chinese documents, sadly.)

Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2003 3:50 am
by Ender
This site has a historical section on the top near the name of the site. Enter that then go to Three kingdoms officer Biographies. In there they have different SGZ biographies on the different characters during this time. This is supposed to be what historically happened during the Three Kingdoms. SGYY by Luo Guanzhong has many fictional facts though it is based on history.

Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2003 4:25 am
by Jiang Zhi
Btw, didn't Guo Jia also predict the enemy (yes i voted for him).....he predicted if you leave Yuan Shao's sons alone, they will start quarreling or something like that?

Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2003 9:15 am
by Mega Zarak
Simfish wrote:May I ask where is the evidence of Xu Shu joining Cao Cao during battle?

(I've only read SGYY, and do not understand Chinese, so I cannot understand SGZ or other historical Chinese documents, sadly.)

It was stated in Zhuge Liang's SGZ biography.