Had Pang Tong Survived Would the Outcome had changed

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Had Pang Tong Survived Would the Outcome had changed

Unread postby Ender » Sun Jan 05, 2003 9:58 pm

Does anyone belive that things would have changed if Pang Tong Survived the attack on Liu Zhang?
"Tell me not in mournful numbers,
Life is but an empty dream!
For the soul is dead that slumbers,
And things are not what they seem."
-- Longfellow
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Unread postby TheGreatNads » Sun Jan 05, 2003 10:21 pm

Well the Shu campaigns would likely be better. Instead of having a politician like Zhuge Liang lead them, they'd have Pang Tong who supposedly was a great military strategist. So yes if Pang Tong really was a great military strategist like he's supposed to be, then I do think the outcome may of been different. After all Sima Yi wasn't that great of a military strategist either, so Pang Tong could probably score Shu much more victories against Wei.
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Unread postby Ender » Sun Jan 05, 2003 10:25 pm

With them working togeather Zhuge would have had much less preasure. They would have been a formidable force against Sima Yi and his children.
"Tell me not in mournful numbers,
Life is but an empty dream!
For the soul is dead that slumbers,
And things are not what they seem."
-- Longfellow
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Unread postby TheGreatNads » Sun Jan 05, 2003 10:31 pm

Yes I agree that they could of been a threat against Sima Yi and his sons, Zhuge may of even lived longer without having all of that pressure. But instead of them both going on the expeditions, my guess would be that Zhuge Liang would stay at the capital and Pang Tong would lead them. But it's possible they might team up. The fact that Zhuge Liang is a politician makes me think he wouldn't go on campaigns when his capable friend Pang Tong can lead them.
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Unread postby Ender » Sun Jan 05, 2003 10:41 pm

With them togeather I belive the kingdom of Shu could have gone much farther than it did. Pang Tong could have been deployed in a area where the kingdom lost a great general (such as when Guan Yu was captured) and turned that would be defeat into a victory, or at least an excape.
"Tell me not in mournful numbers,
Life is but an empty dream!
For the soul is dead that slumbers,
And things are not what they seem."
-- Longfellow
Ender
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Unread postby TheGreatNads » Sun Jan 05, 2003 10:45 pm

I doubt Pang Tong or anyone else for that matter would change the outcome of that. Also, Guan Yu isn't a great general.
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Unread postby Ender » Sun Jan 05, 2003 10:48 pm

That was one in a infinite amount of possiblities. Guan Yu had many accomplishments, though he did tend to brag alot. Why in your view is this man not a great general?
"Tell me not in mournful numbers,
Life is but an empty dream!
For the soul is dead that slumbers,
And things are not what they seem."
-- Longfellow
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Unread postby TheGreatNads » Sun Jan 05, 2003 10:52 pm

Yeah so, what's your point?
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Unread postby Ender » Sun Jan 05, 2003 10:56 pm

Could this underdog kingdom who lacked resources gain more ground with the help of Pang Tong instead of just Zhuge controling everything?
"Tell me not in mournful numbers,
Life is but an empty dream!
For the soul is dead that slumbers,
And things are not what they seem."
-- Longfellow
Ender
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Unread postby Fan Kong » Sun Jan 05, 2003 10:57 pm

Didn't Liu Bei leave someone else in charge of military after his death? Zhuge Liang took over the military anyways, so why wouldn't Zhuge have taken power from Pang Tong?
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