If Guan Yu had not died

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Unread postby Shadowlink » Wed Jan 15, 2003 8:49 pm

if only Guan Yu have not let Cao Cao go by he would have never died. :(
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Guan Yu

Unread postby Pei Yuanshao » Wed Jan 22, 2003 2:17 am

If Guan Yu had not died Shu would have emerged triumphant due to Guan Yu superior abilities.
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Unread postby Ender » Wed Jan 22, 2003 2:28 am

Pei Yuanshao wrote:If Guan Yu had not died Shu would have emerged triumphant due to Guan Yu superior abilities.


His abilities alone couldn't change the future of Shu though his life could. With him living Liu Bei wouldn't have lost against Wu when he seeked revenge for the death of Guan.
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Unread postby Mengdez New Book » Wed Jan 22, 2003 4:57 am

Ender wrote:
His abilities alone couldn't change the future of Shu though his life could. With him living Liu Bei wouldn't have lost against Wu when he seeked revenge for the death of Guan.


IMO, Guan Yu's death not the main reason Liu Bei attacked Wu. Liu Bei attacked Wu because the lost of Jing Zhou. Anyway, i don't really deny Guan Yu's death was part of the reason for Liu bei to act but as i said, it was not the main reason. Guan Yu's death gave an accuse for Liu bei to attack Wu. Remember, Jing Zhou strategically very important to Shu-Han. Before Kong Ming entering the stage of Sanguo, he has mentioned his plan to Liu Bei about using Qin Chuan(Yi Zhou) and Jing Zhou to attack Wei. So, losing Jing Zhou was not easy for Liu Bei. That's why he attacked Wu. Then, Jing Zhou should belong to Wu at the first place, it was Liu Bei who didn't want to return back to Wu at the first place. That's why he need an accuse and reason to attack Wu. :D
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Unread postby Iznoach, Legendary Dragon » Wed Jan 22, 2003 9:55 am

Mengdez New Book wrote:IMO, Guan Yu's death not the main reason Liu Bei attacked Wu. Liu Bei attacked Wu because the lost of Jing Zhou. Anyway, i don't really deny Guan Yu's death was part of the reason for Liu bei to act but as i said, it was not the main reason. Guan Yu's death gave an accuse for Liu bei to attack Wu. Remember, Jing Zhou strategically very important to Shu-Han. Before Kong Ming entering the stage of Sanguo, he has mentioned his plan to Liu Bei about using Qin Chuan(Yi Zhou) and Jing Zhou to attack Wei. So, losing Jing Zhou was not easy for Liu Bei. That's why he attacked Wu. Then, Jing Zhou should belong to Wu at the first place, it was Liu Bei who didn't want to return back to Wu at the first place. That's why he need an accuse and reason to attack Wu. :D


I don't think Jingzhou belonged to Wu, it technically should have belonged to Wei, and then Shu. After Liu Bei initially started attacking Wu on his revenge war, and he was winning, Sun Quan offered to give Jingzhou back to Shu. However, Liu Bei refused and kept up the attack (stupid move, but whatever), and common sense tells you that if his reason for attacking was just to regain Jing (and not out of revenge), then he would have accepted Sun Quans' offer. Therefore, obviously Liu Bei attacked out of vengeance.

But back on topic, I think that if Guan Yu wouldn't have been killed, Wu and Shu would've eventually clashed anyway. They were both plotting on each other, but when Wu finally sealed the temporary alliance with Wei, it was only a matter of time before they attacked Shu. Basically, I don't think anything different would have happened; anything major, anyway.
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straight up weed no angel dust, label us Notorious..."--Biggie
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Unread postby Shadowlink » Wed Jan 22, 2003 7:54 pm

If guan Yu did not died Liu Bei will not fight sun quan.
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Unread postby DarkAnthem » Wed Jan 22, 2003 8:10 pm

Zhugeliang wrote:If guan Yu did not died Liu Bei will not fight sun quan.


That depends. If Guan Yu did not die and did not lose Jing Zhou, it's likely that Shu and Wu would not have had such a major clash at least until after fighting Wei for some time. However, if the scenario was that Guan Yu still loss Jing Zhou but somehow escaped back to Shu, Liu Bei will still set one of his priorities in getting Jing Zhou back, as Shu would be considerably weaker without Jing. Liu Bei wasn't such a nice guy that he would be willing to give up an entire province in his hands just for the safety of one of his favorite generals.
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Unread postby Shadowlink » Wed Jan 22, 2003 9:11 pm

Guan Yu is kind of like the god of war u know the statue of him and his weapon most people repect him.
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Unread postby TheGreatNads » Wed Jan 22, 2003 10:32 pm

Pei Yuanshao wrote:If Guan Yu had not died Shu would have emerged triumphant due to Guan Yu superior abilities.


Guan Yu didn't have superior abilities.
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Unread postby Ender » Wed Jan 22, 2003 11:17 pm

TheGreatNads wrote:Guan Yu didn't have superior abilities.


Maybe, maybe not. The fact is he had a hell of a reputation and people would have been afraid of him in battles.

Both ways a battle with Wu was on the horizon. Liu Bei wanted revenge for losing Jing Zhou as well as losing Guan. If he had only lost Jing then He may have only wanted it back but for Guan's death also he wanted the destruction of Wu. But when Liu Bei attacked for revenge the campaign was destine for defeat.
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Life is but an empty dream!
For the soul is dead that slumbers,
And things are not what they seem."
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