What if Zhang Fei didn't get drunk?

Join the Romance of the Three Kingdoms discussion with our resident Scholars. Topics relating to the novel and history are both welcome. Don't forget to check the Forum Rules before posting.
Kongming’s Archives: Romance of the Three Kingdoms
Three Kingdoms Officer Biographies
Three Kingdoms Officer Encyclopedia
Scholars of Shen Zhou Search Tool

What if Zhang Fei didn't get drunk?

Unread postby X-Zero » Mon Dec 23, 2002 10:25 pm

What if Zhang Fei didn't get drunk and killed by his own bodyguards? would Shu had a better fate? Or would it just have been the same?
I think he could have doen sometihng if he didnt die cause he was SOO POWERFUL!!!! :x
Where have all the Moggles gone kupo?
X-Zero
Apprentice
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2002 3:01 am
Location: Korea

Re: What if Zhang Fei didn't get drunk?

Unread postby Carp's Tail » Mon Dec 23, 2002 10:40 pm

X-Zero wrote:What if Zhang Fei didn't get drunk and killed by his own bodyguards? would Shu had a better fate? Or would it just have been the same?
I think he could have doen sometihng if he didnt die cause he was SOO POWERFUL!!!! :x


I don't think that Zhang Fei was that pivotal of a general that his contribution alone would have turned the tide of Shu. Shu was suffering from the poor fate of having too few generals to grow and take the place of their elder predecessors. About the only general worth mentioning in the latter days of Shu was Jiang Wei, and he was one man alone. The others were aging or already dead. Wu was also suffering from this age attrition. Wei, for the most part, survived since it was generating new worthy generals, thanks to its vast territory of Northern China.
Engage in combat fully determined to die and you will be alive; wish to survive in the battle and you will surely meet death.
-- Uesugi Kenshin
User avatar
Carp's Tail
征夷大將軍
 
Posts: 842
Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2002 4:13 pm

Unread postby TheGreatNads » Tue Dec 24, 2002 4:52 am

That's not true. Jiang Wei wasn't the only good general. Shu still had capable generals such as Liao Hua, Zhang Yi, Ma Dai etc. On the subject, Zhang Fei would of made a huge difference if he were alive considering he was possibly their best general.
TheGreatNads
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1632
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 2:02 am
Location: nowhere new, ever

Unread postby Jiang Zhi » Tue Dec 24, 2002 4:56 am

Think of this: Zhang Fei, Guan Xing, Zhang Bao all at Yiling.....but on the other hand, if Zhuge Liang ain't there, Lu Xun would still have burnt their camps in full retreat ^_^
Jiang Zhi of Foshan, style Maodi
~*!越武帝!*~ - 我愛我的妻子孫尚香!
Nan Hai, Jiaozhou

Laconius Arts and Design My Rot3K fanfiction
User avatar
Jiang Zhi
Sun Shang Xiang's puppy-eyed slave
 
Posts: 3738
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2002 3:07 am
Location: Sun Shang Xiang's bedroom

Unread postby Mega Zarak » Tue Dec 24, 2002 5:02 am

In SGYY, Zhang Fei was not all that stupid too. He managed to beat Zhang He and capture Yan Yan. It showed that Zhang Fei had in some ways, "matured with age", just like wine! Moroever, do not forget that Zhang Fei was the most powerful warrior in SGYY after Lu Bu's death. Hence, if Zhang Fei was available in the battle of Yi Ling, the outcome might have been different. Liu Bei might be able to push further into Wu before coming to a stalemate and Sun Quan might be forced to come up with better deals on the negotiation table. Too many ifs! :D
User avatar
Mega Zarak
Grand Tutor of Wei
 
Posts: 1113
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2002 2:38 am
Location: North of the River

Unread postby Zhanghe_of_Wei » Tue Dec 24, 2002 5:13 am

I think Zhang Fei would be seen as a threat and formidable warrior, sober or otherwise, by the other kingdoms as long as he's alive. If Huang Zhong can be reputably strong despite his age, I believe Zhang Fei can too. I wouldn't know how much that might have changed Shu's fate though.
"Knowledge is not as important as imagination. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world" - Albert Einstein
"In the end, it's not the years in your life that counts. It's the life in your years." -Abraham Lincoln
User avatar
Zhanghe_of_Wei
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1166
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2002 8:43 am
Location: City of Delusion

Unread postby Carp's Tail » Tue Dec 24, 2002 5:22 am

I just don't think that Zhang Fei would have been much of an "X factor" that could have changed the outcome of the battle of Yiling. I don't question his intellect (as Great Deer correctly pointed out, he tricked Yan Yan, and Yan Yan was supposedly no slouch himself).

As for Jiang Wei being the only "good general" left in Shu, I'm saying that in the latter stages of Shu's existence, the other generals like Guan Xing and Zhang Bao did not live too long. Zhang Yi and Ma Dai were in their 40's and 50's, but my principle point is that Shu had a serious talent vacuum at the time that Jiang Wei was rising in prominence.
Engage in combat fully determined to die and you will be alive; wish to survive in the battle and you will surely meet death.
-- Uesugi Kenshin
User avatar
Carp's Tail
征夷大將軍
 
Posts: 842
Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2002 4:13 pm

Unread postby jyang_99 » Tue Dec 24, 2002 7:27 am

I agree with Carp's Tail... however, it should be pointed out that while Shu is declining in power, so is Wei and Wu... many of their former generals died as well, the young ones that take over their places do not have that much of a talent to replace the loss of these old generals... Besides Sima Yi and his sons, Deng Ai and Zhong Hui, none of the others in Wei is worth mentioning... Wu's even more pathetic, the number of generals who are capable to fight has been decreased dramatically.... if it isn't Sima, Wei will probably face the same fate as Shu
jyang_99
Apprentice
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 6:48 am

Unread postby James » Tue Dec 24, 2002 7:36 am

I would say that if getting drunk was the cause of his abusive nature to his subordinates, him not getting drunk would have made him a much more valuable officer (and should have saved his life as well). If this was all simply because of a violent temper, it wouldn’t have done him as much good. Either way it is safe to say that he would have been better off if not an alcoholic.
Kongming’s Archives – Romance of the Three Kingdoms Novel, History and Games
“ They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
  — Ben Franklin
User avatar
James
Sausaged Fish
Sausaged Fish
 
Posts: 17943
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2002 3:21 pm
Location: Happy Valley, UT

Unread postby Chu Liu Xiang » Wed Dec 25, 2002 2:36 am

jyang_99 wrote:I agree with Carp's Tail... however, it should be pointed out that while Shu is declining in power, so is Wei and Wu... many of their former generals died as well, the young ones that take over their places do not have that much of a talent to replace the loss of these old generals... Besides Sima Yi and his sons, Deng Ai and Zhong Hui, none of the others in Wei is worth mentioning... Wu's even more pathetic, the number of generals who are capable to fight has been decreased dramatically.... if it isn't Sima, Wei will probably face the same fate as Shu


How bout Xiahou Ba for Shu?
Chen Tai, Jia Chong for Wei. Ding Feng, Lu Kang for Wu. And then there's Wang Jun, Yang Hu, Du Yu for Wei/Jin.

Btw, if Zhang Fei hadn't been assassinated, would there have been a Yi Ling?
"It takes a big man to cry. It takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man."
I am that bigger man. :lol:
User avatar
Chu Liu Xiang
Student
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 8:50 pm
Location: don't ask

Next

Return to Sanguo Yanyi Symposium

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved