Zhang He...

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Zhang He...

Unread postby Iznoach, Legendary Dragon » Tue Jun 25, 2002 9:25 am

While reading the novel, I noticed many strange things (of course), but it seems like the character Zhang He is over-rated. I really don't remember him doing all that much that's worthy, yet he was always regarded as a great warrior. I can't honestly think of a time where he won. I mean he betrayed Yuan Shao, then lost several battles against Shu before getting killed in battle by a stray arrow...why was he always regarded as such a great man? Please feel free to debate with me.
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Re: Zhang He...

Unread postby Han Xin » Tue Jun 25, 2002 11:18 am

Iznoach, Legendary Dragon wrote:While reading the novel, I noticed many strange things (of course), but it seems like the character Zhang He is over-rated. I really don't remember him doing all that much that's worthy, yet he was always regarded as a great warrior. I can't honestly think of a time where he won. I mean he betrayed Yuan Shao, then lost several battles against Shu before getting killed in battle by a stray arrow...why was he always regarded as such a great man? Please feel free to debate with me.


Name me one battle he lost against Shu... He was killed by chasing the King of Rabbit back to his warren...
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Unread postby Chen Zhen » Tue Jun 25, 2002 5:58 pm

he commanded the Wei army against Shu and defended the western Wei from Zhuge's northern campaign
i don't think he's overated, he's one of the best generals Cao Cao ever had
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Unread postby Dennis » Tue Jun 25, 2002 10:07 pm

SGYY completely defiled Zhang He's good reputation. SGZ wise he was responisble for a lot more than he had done in SGYY.

Secondly, Guo Tu mindlessly slandered Zhang He to Yuan Shao. Both Gao Lan and Zhang He were at risk of huge punishments coming home, because they would have been reprimanded for fabricated mistakes.

Zhang He is hella great.
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Re: Zhang He...

Unread postby James » Wed Jun 26, 2002 12:25 am

Han Xin wrote:Name me one battle he lost against Shu... He was killed by chasing the King of Rabbit back to his warren...

A poor decision does not invalidate a loss.
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Re: Zhang He...

Unread postby Iznoach, Legendary Dragon » Wed Jun 26, 2002 1:50 am

Han Xin wrote:
Iznoach, Legendary Dragon wrote:While reading the novel, I noticed many strange things (of course), but it seems like the character Zhang He is over-rated. I really don't remember him doing all that much that's worthy, yet he was always regarded as a great warrior. I can't honestly think of a time where he won. I mean he betrayed Yuan Shao, then lost several battles against Shu before getting killed in battle by a stray arrow...why was he always regarded as such a great man? Please feel free to debate with me.


Name me one battle he lost against Shu... He was killed by chasing the King of Rabbit back to his warren...


He was defeated by Zhang Fei, when Zhang Fei used the ruse whereby he got drunk out in the open to lure Zhang He into battle...there's more where that came from.
"Armed and dangerous, ain't too many can hang wit us
straight up weed no angel dust, label us Notorious..."--Biggie
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Re: Zhang He...

Unread postby Han Xin » Wed Jun 26, 2002 3:52 am

Iznoach, Legendary Dragon wrote:
Name me one battle he lost against Shu... He was killed by chasing the King of Rabbit back to his warren...


He was defeated by Zhang Fei, when Zhang Fei used the ruse whereby he got drunk out in the open to lure Zhang He into battle...there's more where that came from.[/quote]

Sorry, that battle was fictional... Zhang He historically did once got beaten by Zhang Fei during the battle of HanZhong. However, Zhang Fei and Wei Yan as I said were very good general of Shu, so there is no great shame in that. How about the great Guan Yu losing to almost everyone and still call a god?
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Re: Zhang He...

Unread postby Iznoach, Legendary Dragon » Wed Jun 26, 2002 6:48 am

Han Xin wrote:Sorry, that battle was fictional... Zhang He historically did once got beaten by Zhang Fei during the battle of HanZhong. However, Zhang Fei and Wei Yan as I said were very good general of Shu, so there is no great shame in that. How about the great Guan Yu losing to almost everyone and still call a god?


Mr Han Xin, please re-read my original post, this is supposed to be a debate about Zhang He as portrayed in Luo Guanzhong's novel, not in SGZ. And I was trying to figure out why, when he lost virtually every battle he fought in the novel, he was still regarded as great (in the novel.)
"Armed and dangerous, ain't too many can hang wit us
straight up weed no angel dust, label us Notorious..."--Biggie
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Re: Zhang He...

Unread postby Han Xin » Wed Jun 26, 2002 7:08 am

Iznoach, Legendary Dragon wrote:Mr Han Xin, please re-read my original post, this is supposed to be a debate about Zhang He as portrayed in Luo Guanzhong's novel, not in SGZ. And I was trying to figure out why, when he lost virtually every battle he fought in the novel, he was still regarded as great (in the novel.)


Sorry, I got confuse while trying to answer two of your new thread...the other one talked about SGZ version of Zhuge Liang...

I do apoligy if I strayed off-topic...
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Unread postby Iznoach, Legendary Dragon » Wed Jun 26, 2002 7:12 am

No need to apologize, I like your ruthless and aggressive style...keep it up :twisted:
"Armed and dangerous, ain't too many can hang wit us
straight up weed no angel dust, label us Notorious..."--Biggie
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