Anshi wrote:I don't think a man who loses 5 campaigns consecutively can be called an accomplished strategist.
Iznoach, Legendary Dragon wrote:Point taken, but the vast majority of the actual battles (during northern campaigns) were won by Shu, it states in Jiang Wan's bio that supply difficulties were the reason for the eventual retreats every time, so this shouldn't be a discredit to Kongming's accomplishments.
Jiang Wan always felt that the reasons for Zhuge Liang’s failure was due to the difficulties in navigating the perilous terrain and the problems it posed for the transporting of supplies.
Iznoach, Legendary Dragon wrote:Okay, I stand corrected. It wasn't every time, and that's not what I really meant anyway. But since Jiang Wan was in charge of the homefront while Zhuge was away, I think his comments do matter in assessing the supply situation.
Zhuge was forced to beat a retreat because of supplies every time except the time when Huang Hao slandered his name in court, causing the idiot emperor to withdaw Zhuge Liang to the capitol when he was about to win. Anyway, I'm not asserting that he was a "great" strategist, just a good one and not horrible like everybody seems to think. It seems like with Kongming there's no gray area, he's either great or disgustingly horrible, and I don't buy that.
Anshi wrote:I think it was pretty good for a civil administrator (let's face it, that's what he was) to have any skills at generalship at all. However I think compared to any of the other greats of the era like Cao Cao or Lu Xun, Zhuge Liang is not that good.
Iznoach, Legendary Dragon wrote:I'm gonna step slightly out of bounds for a second, since I don't have access to Lu Xun's bio, but in SGYY Lu Xun stated that he was glad Zhuge Liang wasn't there (at Yiling), because he was no match for him. I'm back in bounds now.
Anshi wrote:That never happened in real history, as Lu Xun had no reason to be afraid of a civil administrator.
I wonder if Liu Bei was glad Zhang Zhao wasn't at Yiling, or he would've lost even worse?
Lu Xun won numerous victories, while Zhuge Liang suffered little other than defeat.
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