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Re: 'Talons and Fangs of the Eastern Han Warlords' Thesis

Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:42 pm
by Dong Zhou
Thanks, look forward to giving this a read particularly the early chapters covering areas we don't often read about, particularly given the reviews

Re: 'Talons and Fangs of the Eastern Han Warlords' Thesis

Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:07 pm
by Elitemsh
Fin, many thanks for giving a link for this thesis. Was an interesting read but disagree with some of his views on Shu men. He said Ma Chao played a crucial role in Yi campaign. Ma Chao did fa here. He made the enemy surrender earlier but it looks like that was inevitable anyway. Didn't Liu Bei etc have the city surrounded from all sides? At Han Zhong, I remember Ma Chao being paired with Zhang Fei but no successes on the field. His argument of the ranks being a measure of what each had done for Liu Bei is absolute bs as far as I'm concerned. Ma Chao's contribution to Shu was much less than the others. It's a case of Guan Yu= Zhang Fei> Zhao Yun> Huang Zhong> Ma Chao.

Re: 'Talons and Fangs of the Eastern Han Warlords' Thesis

Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:09 am
by Aaron.K
Elitemsh wrote:Fin, many thanks for giving a link for this thesis. Was an interesting read but disagree with some of his views on Shu men. He said Ma Chao played a crucial role in Yi campaign. Ma Chao did fa here. He made the enemy surrender earlier but it looks like that was inevitable anyway. Didn't Liu Bei etc have the city surrounded from all sides? At Han Zhong, I remember Ma Chao being paired with Zhang Fei but no successes on the field. His argument of the ranks being a measure of what each had done for Liu Bei is absolute bs as far as I'm concerned. Ma Chao's contribution to Shu was much less than the others. It's a case of Guan Yu= Zhang Fei> Zhao Yun> Huang Zhong> Ma Chao.


Yeah, I just finished the Shu chapter. I don't agree at all with his views on Ma Chao and his achievements. I think Ma Chao's rank was more to placate him because of his nobility instead of what he'd done for Liu Bei.

Re: 'Talons and Fangs of the Eastern Han Warlords' Thesis

Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:39 am
by Sun Fin
I haven't read the character profiles other that Dian Wei's one but the impression I got was that it would be the weakest part of the thesis, certainly considering our accumulated knowledge. I think the social/military history contributions are more valuable to us.

Re: 'Talons and Fangs of the Eastern Han Warlords' Thesis

Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:49 pm
by CaTigeReptile
Wow, the Military Theories, Tactics, Codes of Warfare section has some great translations of stuff I've never seen before. Thanks for posting! There's also great info about those military markets. The info about the composition/orderliness/professionalism of the troops is straight from DeCrespigny, though.

Re: 'Talons and Fangs of the Eastern Han Warlords' Thesis

Unread postPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:45 pm
by Tao Qian
Thanks a lot for sharing this! :D

Re: 'Talons and Fangs of the Eastern Han Warlords' Thesis

Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:37 pm
by Sun Fin
I've just discovered that you can buy this thesis on the same website as Carl Leban's one. I'm added to my want list!

Re: 'Talons and Fangs of the Eastern Han Warlords' Thesis

Unread postPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:57 pm
by Sun Fin
Just discovered you can get this in book form for free if you have Kindle unlimited! Unfortunately it's only available in electric form.

I'm wondering if the author has updated his work before publishing it as a book. If anyone does download it - I don't have kindle unlimited - then it would be amazing if you could check for any discrepancies between them!

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Re: 'Talons and Fangs of the Eastern Han Warlords' Thesis

Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:56 am
by Tao Qian
:D :D
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IMG_20190312_184256.jpg (98.05 KiB) Viewed 613 times

Re: 'Talons and Fangs of the Eastern Han Warlords' Thesis

Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:18 pm
by Qin Feng
This seems very interesting since I really wanted some soeces on the military aspect of the period. I hope you don't mind if I ask you about reference material in the future :wink: