'Talons and Fangs of the Eastern Han Warlords' Thesis

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Re: 'Talons and Fangs of the Eastern Han Warlords' Thesis

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:42 pm

Thanks, look forward to giving this a read particularly the early chapters covering areas we don't often read about, particularly given the reviews
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Re: 'Talons and Fangs of the Eastern Han Warlords' Thesis

Unread postby Elitemsh » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:07 pm

Fin, many thanks for giving a link for this thesis. Was an interesting read but disagree with some of his views on Shu men. He said Ma Chao played a crucial role in Yi campaign. Ma Chao did fa here. He made the enemy surrender earlier but it looks like that was inevitable anyway. Didn't Liu Bei etc have the city surrounded from all sides? At Han Zhong, I remember Ma Chao being paired with Zhang Fei but no successes on the field. His argument of the ranks being a measure of what each had done for Liu Bei is absolute bs as far as I'm concerned. Ma Chao's contribution to Shu was much less than the others. It's a case of Guan Yu= Zhang Fei> Zhao Yun> Huang Zhong> Ma Chao.
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Re: 'Talons and Fangs of the Eastern Han Warlords' Thesis

Unread postby Aaron.K » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:09 am

Elitemsh wrote:Fin, many thanks for giving a link for this thesis. Was an interesting read but disagree with some of his views on Shu men. He said Ma Chao played a crucial role in Yi campaign. Ma Chao did fa here. He made the enemy surrender earlier but it looks like that was inevitable anyway. Didn't Liu Bei etc have the city surrounded from all sides? At Han Zhong, I remember Ma Chao being paired with Zhang Fei but no successes on the field. His argument of the ranks being a measure of what each had done for Liu Bei is absolute bs as far as I'm concerned. Ma Chao's contribution to Shu was much less than the others. It's a case of Guan Yu= Zhang Fei> Zhao Yun> Huang Zhong> Ma Chao.


Yeah, I just finished the Shu chapter. I don't agree at all with his views on Ma Chao and his achievements. I think Ma Chao's rank was more to placate him because of his nobility instead of what he'd done for Liu Bei.
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Re: 'Talons and Fangs of the Eastern Han Warlords' Thesis

Unread postby Sun Fin » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:39 am

I haven't read the character profiles other that Dian Wei's one but the impression I got was that it would be the weakest part of the thesis, certainly considering our accumulated knowledge. I think the social/military history contributions are more valuable to us.
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Re: 'Talons and Fangs of the Eastern Han Warlords' Thesis

Unread postby CaTigeReptile » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:49 pm

Wow, the Military Theories, Tactics, Codes of Warfare section has some great translations of stuff I've never seen before. Thanks for posting! There's also great info about those military markets. The info about the composition/orderliness/professionalism of the troops is straight from DeCrespigny, though.
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Re: 'Talons and Fangs of the Eastern Han Warlords' Thesis

Unread postby Tao Qian » Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:45 pm

Thanks a lot for sharing this! :D
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